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Thread: Guide to Mafia for New Players and Q&A

  1. #1
    Philosopher Nortac's Avatar
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    Default Guide to Mafia for New Players and Q&A

    Hi, Nortac here. I thought I'd make this thread to help educate those people who are curious about playing this game of mafia, but are afraid to ask questions.

    First off: What is mafia, and how is it played?

    Mafia is a game in which the majority of the players, the town, takes on the minority, called the mafia. How is this fair, you may ask? Well, the players of the town generally only know what their own role is, and have no idea what roles any of the other players have. The players of the mafia, on the other hand, know not only their own role, but the roles of each of the other members of the mafia; the mafia can coordinate their efforts in eliminating the town players.

    How do I win?

    In general, the players of the town win by voting on a player to lynch every "day". They try to determine who appears to be the most mafia-like, and lynch them, removing them from the game. When the village removes all of the mafia players from the game, they win.

    The mafia wins by killing off all of the players of the town. They can kill a player every night, and can also accomplish their goal by manipulating the vote to lynch town players.

    For a summary of what I've said, and even more info, you can visit the following link: http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf This is a flash guide to the game, including an example game, tips, and so on. Keep in mind that some of the rules they mention are specific to the forum that flash was made for. Always read the rules of the game of mafia you're in.

    You've mentioned roles. What kinds of roles are there?

    There are quite a few different roles. Some roles protect other players, some can tell if another player is aligned with the village or mafia, and yet others can kill another player without being part of the mafia. Whenever a host makes a round, they will post descriptions of all the roles they intend to use and how they function. Any questions about the roles in use can generally be directed at the host. For a guide to the various types of roles and how they usually function, click here: http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf

    I just looked at some different rounds, and the hosts all appeared to be playing by different rules! Why don't they all use the same rules?

    As we don't have a definitive set of rules under which all games must be played, hosts tend to make their rules to fit their own style (for example, how much is revealed in the "Kill Posts"); there are plenty of rules, however, that don't change from game to game, like general play guidelines.

    I want to play a game of mafia. How do I join up?

    We almost always have a game going, so if there doesn't appear to be any sort of signups, you can pm the host of the current game to get an idea of when the next one will start. Please don't post in the game thread, however!



    I believe I've covered everything that might be an issue. Any further questions can be asked in this thread, and someone will answer as soon as possible. If you know of something that I should have covered, but didn't, feel free to let me know and I'll edit it in.
    Last edited by Nortac; 08-25-2011 at 11:39 AM.

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    Consul Woden's Avatar
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    A post on the statistical considerations of first-day lynchings:

    (TL;DR version: Don't lynch on day 1 if you can avoid it.)


    The exact numbers involved in this will vary highly depending on the number of players and the number of mafia members. However, in general, it is a benefit to the village to not lynch on the first day (if the rules make it possible), as I will try to show here.

    First of all, in almost all cases, the first day lynch will be completely random; there simply is not anything solid to go by in the first day. This means that first-day lynches can therefore be looked at from a purely statistical perspective. One important consideration to keep in mind which stems from this: There will almost always be one less villager the second day (because of the mafia's kill) than the first day, and this improves your chances of randomly guessing a mafia member. For example, in a game featuring 6 players with 1 mafia member, each villager's chance of guessing the mafia correctly on the first night is only 1-in-5, or 20% (remember, any villager guessing would be discounting themselves), whereas waiting a night and letting the mafia kill someone improves that chance to 1-in-4, or 25%.

    Secondly, if there are an even number of players, then it is possible for the village to gain an extra day in a worst-case scenario (repeatedly lynching villagers) if they refrain from lynching on the first day. As an example, using a game starting off with 10 players, two of whom are mafia members:

    Day Lynch on Day 1 No lynch on Day 1
    1 10 10
    2 8 9
    3 6 7
    4 4 5
    5 2 (loss) 3
    6 --- 1 (loss)






    Keep in mind that, so long as the village is able to control the lynch vote, there is a chance of victory... so, that extra day means that there is still a hope of victory after the point when the first-day lynch would have led to a village loss.

    Putting off a first-day lynch improves the chances of the village winning (though with closer victories) in almost all cases, but delaying past that tends to hurt the village. To illustrate how large of an effect this can have, I'll provide some probabilities from three hypothetical games. While the actual math is a bit too space-consuming to put here, the odds of victory (given purely random lynching each day) for these games are as follows:

    In a 6-person match with one mafia member:

    First lynch on day 1: 38% chance of village win, 63% chance of mafia win. Average of 3.89 villagers left if the village wins.
    First lynch on day 2: 47% chance of village win, 53% chance of mafia win. Average of 2.86 villagers left if the village wins.
    First lynch on day 3: 50% chance of village win, 50% chance of mafia win. Average of 3.0 villagers left if the village wins.

    In a 10-person match with two mafia members:

    First lynch on day 1: 22% chance of village win, 78% chance of mafia win. Average of 4.04 villagers left if village wins.
    First lynch on day 2: 30% chance of village win, 70% chance of mafia win. Average of 2.98 villagers left if village wins.
    First lynch on day 3: 16% chance of village win, 84% chance of mafia win. Average of 3.53 villagers left if village wins.

    In a 12-person match with three mafia members:

    First lynch on day 1: 11% chance of a village win, 89% chance of a mafia win. Average of 3.71 villagers left if the village wins.
    First lynch on day 2: 16% chance of a village win, 84% chance of a mafia win. Average of 2.65 villagers left if the village wins.
    First lynch on day 3: 7% chance of a village win, 93% chance of a mafia win. Average of 3.36 villagers left if the village wins.



    Appendix: Chances of you randomly guessing a mafia member, by number of remaining players (chances are per remaining mafia member; multiply by the number of mafia members left to get actual chances)

    Players (including you) Chance
    3 50%
    4 33.3%
    5 25%
    6 20%
    7 16.7%
    8 14.3%
    9 12.5%
    10 11.1%
    11 10
    12 9.1%
    13 8.3%
    14 7.7%
    15 7.1%
    17 6.7%
    18 6.3%
    19 5.6%
    20 5.3%

  3. #3
    Consul Woden's Avatar
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    Also, an addendum to the previous stats, this one targeted more at hosts:

    Having just crunched some numbers on probabilities (I seriously need to figure out how to write a program to do this for me), I've figured out a few simple things about the setup (in particular, the number of players and the village:mafia ratio) that influence the likelihood of a village win.

    1: An odd number of total players increases the likelihood of a village win, if there is only a lynch and a mafia kill each night. The reason is that it causes there to be an extra night before the mafia can win. (Edit: There are similar, but more complicated, patterns if there are more kills each night, but this factor will not be consistent throughout such rounds, and therefore is then not worth as much consideration)

    2: Having more total players (in particular, more mafia) reduces the likelihood of a village win, even at the same village:mafia ratio. There are actually two reasons for this that I have figured out.

    . . 2a: With more players, but a lower ratio: The chances of guessing a mafia member from the crowd are lower. For example, it takes less luck to guess the mafia member out of 6 people than it does to guess them out of 10 people. (Edit: Actually, upon further number-crunching, this one is more conditional. It's only when the number of players goes up without increasing the number of nights needed for the mafia to win that it hurts; but, if it grants an extra night before the earliest possible mafia win, it helps.)

    . . 2b: With more players, but an equal ratio: If there are fewer mafia members, then it takes less lucky guesses for the village to win; for example, with a single mafia member, the village only has to guess correctly once, but if there are three mafia members, then the village has to get lucky three times. (Edit: As Nortac points out later in the thread, it is possible to keep a similar village win rate by increasing the number of mafia members at half the rate of players, such as doubling (2x) the number of mafia members each time the number of players quadruples (4x).)


    For powerless rounds, I actually found that the most-favorable setup for the village, while still lasting long enough to be somewhat interesting, was a 6:1 round, with (under random lynching) a 54% chance of a village win, an average of 3.54 nights per round, and an average of 3.68 villagers left if the village wins (Edit: Better one found: 8:1 rounds give a 59% village win rate, with an average of 4.26 nights, and an average of 4.49 villagers left if the village wins).


    I didn't bother trying to figure out anything about multiple mafias, since the sheer amount of math involved in even the simplest worthwhile round I could conceive was making even my head spin, but I feel confident that it would increase the probability of a village win (relative to the same number of mafia members being in a single group) due to the mafia-on-mafia fighting.
    Last edited by Woden; 09-10-2011 at 03:44 AM.

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    Philosopher Nortac's Avatar
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    That reminds me of something I found when looking at the wikipedia article for the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_g...e_and_strategy

    They showed that when there are a large number of players and the win probability for either side is 50%, the innocent's lack of information means that the Mafia numbers need only double when the total number of players quadruple for the win chances to remain even.
    This undoubtedly doesn't work quite the same on the scale we play at, but it is interesting nonetheless.


    Also, for hosts: It's important to try and maintain a balance in your rounds. This means, the more power roles you give to the village, the more power the mafia should get in turn, to help kill the village more efficiently, sneakily, etc. This is the underlying principle in a C9++ round: The more power roles the village gets rolled, the more powerful the mafia (and serial killer) gets as a result.

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    Consul Woden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nortac View Post
    This undoubtedly doesn't work quite the same on the scale we play at, but it is interesting nonetheless.
    It doesn't, but it's close.

    6:2 gives a 16% chance of a village win.
    12:3 gives a 25% chance of a village win (it's higher due to being an odd number of players).
    24:4 gives a 19% chance of a village win.

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    Philosopher Vash103's Avatar
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    Default Mafia Advice

    I think it's good for newer players to have a space where they can ask advice from more experienced players on their play style. What can they Improve upon as an individual, Do's and Don'ts, ect. So I figure if you're looking for advice, you can do so here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    By Gump's magical shoes, you've been around since 2007 - how is that possible?
    I know I'm what you're dreaming of. My name is Vash, man of love.

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    Philosopher Nortac's Avatar
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    I think this would also be a good place for asking about "mafia theory" type questions; e.g. how the game works on the non-basic level, etc.

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    *Looks suspiciously at Vash*

    I'll certainly try this when the current game is finished. ^^

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    Philosopher Vash103's Avatar
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    I'll kick it off. My problem is for sure my play style. I try to play in a very cocky way. My idea is, it makes me look more sure of things I say, even if I'm not so sure, as well as anger anyone I question. I like to get people angry. It's easier for them to make a mistake. Some people take this wrong though... They can think I'm honestly like this, or this is what I'm actually thinking. I'm putting this out there now, anything I say in mafia shouldn't be held against me. For me, nothing I say is personal.

    I also post.... a lot.... I mean a looooooooooot. But It's because I try to play with an open book policy. I try to convey every thought I have, every minute I think it. I realize being reserved has it's advantages, but I like the thought that others can pick apart my thoughts, especially since I very often have a bad habit of putting together well thought plans/accusations but forget one or two key elements that can negate the whole Idea or worse, even make it a hindrance. But some players find it very annoying (and rightly so) when they leave for 30 minutes and come back to a full blown novel.

    I over analyze, for sure. This is actually a RL problem and not a part of my play style.
    But, even if we look at Mafia 51 and me and doog. It's looked upon as bad because I practically forced a townie to reveal his role. Maybe I'm going about it all wrong but.. I didn't see it as so bad. First off, he was caught in a lie, I kept hammering away untill I forced someone to a point of truth, someone who didn't even have the villages needs in mind. Remember, in this round he simply needed to survive. It didn't matter which faction won.

    I have a mafia persona. When you play mafia with Vash, you are playing with a different person then the one sitting at the computer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    By Gump's magical shoes, you've been around since 2007 - how is that possible?
    I know I'm what you're dreaming of. My name is Vash, man of love.

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    Philosopher dooglash sontoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash103 View Post
    But, even if we look at Mafia 51 and me and doog. It's looked upon as bad because I practically forced a townie to reveal his role. Maybe I'm going about it all wrong but.. I didn't see it as so bad. First off, he was caught in a lie, I kept hammering away untill I forced someone to a point of truth, someone who didn't even have the villages needs in mind. Remember, in this round he simply needed to survive. It didn't matter which faction won.
    Nice spin .

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    Philosopher Shenaynay's Avatar
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    Merged the guide and Q&A together.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    I would like to have a fertile female for a mate

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    Philosopher Nortac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash103 View Post
    <question wall>
    Aside from the example you provided, how many cases can you think of where your play style negatively affected your team?

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    Philosopher dooglash sontoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nortac View Post
    Aside from the example you provided, how many cases can you think of where your play style negatively affected your team?
    That round did negatively affect his team, they lost .

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    Philosopher Nortac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dooglash sontoosh View Post
    That round did negatively affect his team, they lost .
    Yes, I realize that as being the case, which is why he provided it as an example. What I asked was how many other cases there were; if it was common for his playstyle to cause a loss for his team or not.

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    Philosopher dooglash sontoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nortac View Post
    Yes, I realize that as being the case, which is why he provided it as an example. What I asked was how many other cases there were; if it was common for his playstyle to cause a loss for his team or not.
    Mmmm, I think he was stating that his strategy worked well.

    And normally, it doesn't.

    A somewhat aggressive strategy does, but overly aggressive does not.

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    Philosopher Nortac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dooglash sontoosh View Post
    Mmmm, I think he was stating that his strategy worked well.

    And normally, it doesn't.

    A somewhat aggressive strategy does, but overly aggressive does not.
    So the only problem is how he behaves, which is in and of itself difficult to change. My only advice to Vash is to ask yourself when the time for aggressive play is, and when the time for more passive play is. I'd add some explanation to that, but I haven't the time right now, but I'm sure others could help in that regard.

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    Philosopher Hidden sage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash103 View Post
    I'll kick it off. My problem is for sure my play style. I try to play in a very cocky way. My idea is, it makes me look more sure of things I say, even if I'm not so sure, as well as anger anyone I question. I like to get people angry. It's easier for them to make a mistake. Some people take this wrong though... They can think I'm honestly like this, or this is what I'm actually thinking. I'm putting this out there now, anything I say in mafia shouldn't be held against me. For me, nothing I say is personal.
    Any mafia veteran will understand this already. We all have mafia persona's. kmatt is nicer elsewhere on the forums than he is here. Jacana is more talkative outside of rounds. Doog doesn't have a control complex, except when he plays. And if I'm talking politics or religion or anything besides whether you're scum, I'm a lot less analytical, and just shoot from the hip. It's understood that we change our habits in this game to conceal information, or put spin on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash103 View Post
    I also post.... a lot.... I mean a looooooooooot. But It's because I try to play with an open book policy. I try to convey every thought I have, every minute I think it. I realize being reserved has it's advantages, but I like the thought that others can pick apart my thoughts, especially since I very often have a bad habit of putting together well thought plans/accusations but forget one or two key elements that can negate the whole Idea or worse, even make it a hindrance. But some players find it very annoying (and rightly so) when they leave for 30 minutes and come back to a full blown novel.
    Playing open book is good, but there are two hindrances:

    1) You MUST force yourself to appear open when you're mafia, as well. Learn to lie like a fish breathes water, or you'll get caught as scum every time, because if you start as an open player, you stay one. I actually play less open than I used to, specifically because I can't falsify information on the go at the needed pace.

    2) Novel-length posting leads a lot of players to just ignore half of your ideas, which ruins the benefit of posting. This was actually solved by the rule shift in this forum-- we're allowed double posts here. So don't post all your thoughts on one post. Find a post you want to comment on, and comment on it. Then go to the next one. Shoot your ideas off in small, discrete pieces. Easier to read that way. Easier to shoot holes in.

    Take both pieces of advice in hand, and you won't have any problems with post style anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash103 View Post
    I over analyze, for sure. This is actually a RL problem and not a part of my play style.
    But, even if we look at Mafia 51 and me and doog. It's looked upon as bad because I practically forced a townie to reveal his role. Maybe I'm going about it all wrong but.. I didn't see it as so bad. First off, he was caught in a lie, I kept hammering away untill I forced someone to a point of truth, someone who didn't even have the villages needs in mind. Remember, in this round he simply needed to survive. It didn't matter which faction won.
    If you conclude someone is not a threat to your own faction or individual victory, let them be. If you suspect it, let them be. Your problem is that of addiction-- you love to beat the dead horse. A LOT. Let a worry go when it's obvious it's not significant. And you'll be fine.

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    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Okay ... Newbie here ... How do I play this Mafia game ? A link or something ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Okay ... Newbie here ... How do I play this Mafia game ? A link or something ?
    First you sign up on this thread (just post saying you'll play). Once the game starts, you will be sent a private message telling you what your role is. Regardless of your role, you will be able to vote to lynch a player every day, with the player with the most votes being removed from the game (as well as a player chosen by the Mafia). If you are a town player, you have to try to find out who the Mafia are and lynch them. If you are a Mafia player, you are told who all the other Mafia are, and try to avoid being lynched and kill players. The town win when all Mafia are eliminated, and the Mafia win when they outnumber the town players, allowing them to control the lynch. In addition, there are power roles which allow players to find out the role of other players or interfere with other power roles (such as the Mafia kill).

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    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Okay ... Newbie here ... How do I play this Mafia game ? A link or something ?
    If you come and play, we'll help you along.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

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    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    If you come and play, we'll help you along.
    Im in ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse-Keyboard View Post
    First you sign up on this thread (just post saying you'll play). Once the game starts, you will be sent a private message telling you what your role is. Regardless of your role, you will be able to vote to lynch a player every day, with the player with the most votes being removed from the game (as well as a player chosen by the Mafia). If you are a town player, you have to try to find out who the Mafia are and lynch them. If you are a Mafia player, you are told who all the other Mafia are, and try to avoid being lynched and kill players. The town win when all Mafia are eliminated, and the Mafia win when they outnumber the town players, allowing them to control the lynch. In addition, there are power roles which allow players to find out the role of other players or interfere with other power roles (such as the Mafia kill).
    Lynch as in kill ?
    Last edited by Mod Polecat; 09-16-2016 at 07:47 AM. Reason: Merging posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
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  22. #22
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Im in ...



    Lynch as in kill ?
    Yes, kill off from the game. Can be a sort game for some.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  23. #23
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    It makes more sense to learn as you go than to try to understand the rules in the abstract.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

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    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    If you come and play, we'll help you along.
    The irony ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

  25. #25
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    The irony ...
    Hey, I didn't say I meant all of us
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

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    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Hey, I didn't say I meant all of us
    Should have known that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

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