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Thread: Marmot Man's guide to the Unorthodox End Game Ram Hammer

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    Philosopher Marmot Man's Avatar
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    Default Marmot Man's guide to the Unorthodox End Game Ram Hammer

    1) Introduction

    Hello! The following guide is to showcase a different route to building an End Game ram hammer. While it will not be for everyone, I will give a basic outline on what to do, while also noting areas where those with more resources than the average player has can improve upon the template provided. The directions I will provide are from personal experience in a server long experiment.

    Why a ram hammer? While not as glorious for End Game purposes as a horde of catapults knocking off levels from a World Wonder, the ram hammer allows those who come behind it to do their jobs much more effectively. Even a Teutonic Earth Wall, the tribe with the lowest defense bonus for a wall, is still almost a fifty percent bonus to the troops stationed at the World Wonder village. And when you are dealing with hundred of thousands, and very often millions, of troops stationed in defense, that bonus can be huge. A ram hammer that can knock down the wall in essence can get rid of a third of the defense stationed, allowing for the hammers that follow to be that much more effective.

    Who is this guide for? This guide assumes that you have some experience in playing Travian. Beginners will be better suited searching in the guide section for one of the many well written treatises to help them learn the ropes of this fine game. Also, for you to be successful, it will be assumed that you are at least a semi-active player (log on at least twice a day for at least half an hour) and also use gold (240 gold a month for a starting point once you get several villages going).

    The goal: To build out of your capital a hammer of rams, and ONLY rams. There are several advantages to skip building the usual escort. Since we will be building only siege, you wonít be losing the benefits of the Great Barracks and Great Stable that canít be built in a capital. Also, since you wonít have to move it elsewhere to park it, there will be no hassle of constantly shipping wheat to keep it fed. If you use Gold Club, you can also make use of the auto-dodge feature to keep your hammer safe from attacks while you are asleep or otherwise not online. Finally, with the hammer being built in the capital, losing your force by having the village being chiefed isnít ever a worry.

    2) Starting Out

    Tribe: When I was doing my experiment, I was playing as a Gaul, the tribe with the weakest ram in terms of attack power. So, any tribe that you want to play will work for this guide. If you are looking for the most powerful rams I would recommend Teutons. Their rams not only have the highest attack power, you can also gain an extra 10% boost with a Brewery.

    Capital: Your second village should be your capital, and you should be trying for a 15 cropper with at the minimum of 100% bonus to wheat from oases. Of course, if you can grab a better spot do so, but you will need at least 100% in order to avoid having to jump through extra hoops for feeding the hammer you will be building.

    During first couple of months, your goals will be the same as almost everybody else. Surviving any aggressive players that arenít in your alliance, settling a second village as soon as you can, and of course having fun. On top of getting your capital fields built up as high as fast as you can, you will want to try to get a Siege Workshop built up and producing rams. I myself am not a top tier player, and was able to have rams being produced 24/7 by the end of the fourth month, so if you need a Ďdo or dieí date, make that it.

    Decoy Hammer Village: Since the standard method of building hammers is to train the troops in an village adjacent to the capital, I would suggest building such a Ďdecoyí village. Iím not saying that you simply make a hollow shell of a village, mind you. You will need some sort of army to clear out the oases for your capital and feeders if nothing else, and being able to send fakes from it down the line will help reinforce to opponents that, should they wish to take out your hammer by chiefing, they will want to target the decoy village.

    3) Mid Game

    Artifacts: While there are several artifacts that would help out, most notably the ones that reduce troop training time, I would like to emphasize that in no way is it mandatory to use artifacts. In my test run, I never had use of an artifact that would have helped make my ram hammer better. Will they help, and make the end result even better? Of course! Should you gain access to an artifact that will help you out, through your own strength or you alliance mates, by all means take advantage of it. But donít feel that your efforts will be a waste if you do not ever get the benefit of any artifacts either.

    Your Hero: While you are busy trying to create a forest worth of rams, donít neglect leveling up your hero. By the time End Game comes around and you need to launch, you will want to have your hero with a +20% Offense bonus. This can be easily enough achieved through just attacking nearby oases if you find yourself without any easy player targets to harvest easy kills from.

    Your Capital: You will want to get all your wheat fields up to level 18. While higher can be done with artifacts, with the gold bonus to wheat production you will with only 100% oasis bonus still be able to feed over 65,000 wheat worth of troops. Also, you will need to build a blacksmith to give your rams the maximum attack bonus. When you are done building up your fields, tear down some warehouses to increase your granary space. You never know when the unwanted Real Life disaster is going to strike, so the larger the granary capacity, the less youíll lose to overflow should you miss a regular playing session.

    4) The Pay Off

    What you should have: By the time End Game has gotten well under way and it comes time to use your force to damage an opposing World Wonder, you should have at least 20,000 Rams ready to go. Add a hero, wait for instructions from leadership (or if you are leadership, choose a target) and make sure you arenít late for the launch! As long as you arenít trying to land directly after a Natar attack against the Wonder, I would even suggest erring on the side of being early by a second or two for the time being given to land at. Since gold can not be spent to insta-build at the World Wonder, you donít have to worry about the wall being rebuilt in the time between you landing and the hammers that follow behind, and you never know when the server is going to throw a lag bubble at you.

    What you can expect: While the defense of every Wonder is different, here are the results from what I did in my test run.



    (This will be edited to show the complete BR once the current round is done and the full BRs are released.)

    Why this madness works: It all comes down to abusing the way that rams do damage to the wall. There is a complex formula used to determine what the final level of the wall is, and that can be found here:
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.p...13#post1906213
    To overly simplify it, rams strike twice, once before the battle begins, and then in the battle itself. The wall gets lowered by an average of the damage done, so if you can do enough damage with the first strike, it doesnít matter how few troops you are actually able to kill with your rams. I myself gained barely over 10,000 attacker points in the battle listed above, a very small percentage of the troops youíll find at your average Wonder. And still, what I did was enough to lower the defense bonus of the wall from +48% down to +10%.

    I hope that you found this guide to be illuminating, or at the least amusing. If you see any typos or errors, or have any questions or ideas, please post them in a reply, or send them to me directly in a PM. Thanks for your time!

  2. #2
    Philosopher Vash103's Avatar
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    As I've always come to expect from you, MM. Very nice.
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    This should be stickied on .com!

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    Philosopher thereter's Avatar
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    Short simple and to the point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    This should be stickied on .com!
    It should be stickied everywhere.
    And if he'd been playing tuetons with the 10% bonus and 30% stronger rams, he'd have blown the wall completely away - with is scary considering his clear was nothing.

    I wonder if this guide gets followed enough if they'll change the way rams work...
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    Philosopher polaris's Avatar
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    I'll be curious to see the standing defense in the WW village during this hit. Kinda interesting to see how much damage an unescorted ram hammer can do. I was trained in the methodology of always providing an escort for your ram/cat hammer.
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  7. #7

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    The defense was... limited. s4 has a very small population and to wit, very small WW defenses. This was a major factor in the success of this method. On a server with serious WW defenses, then yes, you still will want an escort. Since the more troops you can kill, the more rams that fire, and the more damage you can do to the wall.

  8. #8

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    I feel like either I am missing something or everyone else who thinks this is amazing is missing something.

    The oversimplified version of how rams work is: the game calculates how many troops would survive if the attack was sent as a raid. Half of whatever troops survive in this calculation then fire before the actual attack takes place and the other half fire after the actual attack, if they survive.

    So with that said, clearly more troops in your ram hammer, either rams or escorts, will increase the wall damage... or less defense in the WW.

    There are many things you can do to make a ram-hammer less effective... having no escort would be very high on that list. Will this work on a poorly defended WW? Yes, without a doubt. Escorts would work even better. If a ram-only hammer can fully destroy a WW wall on it's own, I find it very hard to believe that WW was ever worth attacking in the first place.

    Maybe slow servers only have poorly defended WW's but that is not the case for winning WW's on speed servers. I know if you try smashing 25,000 unescorted rams into a WW with over 3 million+ defense, you will be lucky to knock off more than 1 level on the wall. You will do so much more damage with even a small escort compared to no escort. Sometimes, things worth doing are worth doing right.

    So to me, this guide is basically a guide on how to sell yourself short on a ram-hammer. If this type of thing is what equals success on slow servers, it just goes to show how obvious it is that slow servers are the minor league of travian.
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  9. #9

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    Erbal, it is nothing to do with slow servers, everything to do with tiny population servers. On us4 there are only 1083 active players right now. A single player can be a top 35 alliance no problem.

    In this case the alliance on defense holds 8 WW's and has 318 players to defend them. It is a shortened server so this is 2 months earlier than normal on top of it all... yeah, defenses are pathetic by any normal standard.



    [edit]And a note to the people who actually think that sending 22k rams solo is a "Good Idea". If there had been 17,373 swordsmen added to that attack (roughly the equivalent amount of attack power), then it would have been about twice as effective. So if you are willing to spend about 43 million in resources, then it will behoove you to spend another 9.5 million to double your power.
    Last edited by Erik; 12-05-2010 at 07:39 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quick tests on a battle sim show there would have to only be between 600k and 700k wheat worth of defense in the wonder to get that report. You'd have to be insane to build for 6 months hoping to find a wonder that weak in endgame. But of course, the stars aligned properly and he DID find one. And I have to admit, that's an awesome looking BR. Forum posts and BRs are the only things that last from one round to the next, so I'd say it paid off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Erbal, it is nothing to do with slow servers, everything to do with tiny population servers. On us4 there are only 1083 active players right now. A single player can be in the top 35 alliances no problem.

    In this case the alliance on defense holds 8 WW's and has 318 players to defend them. It is a shortened server so this is 2 months earlier than normal on top of it all... yeah, defenses are pathetic by any normal standard.

    [edit]And a note to the people who actually think that sending 22k rams solo is a "Good Idea". If there had been 17,373 swordsmen added to that attack (roughly the equivalent amount of attack power), then it would have been about twice as effective. So if you are willing to spend about 43 million in resources, then it will behoove you to spend another 9.5 million to double your power.
    The .US servers have some serious issues with the number of players on their servers so I am sure you are right... it's just hard to imagine any elite players/accounts actually wanting to put in 9+ months of work on any server that drops down to only 1000 active accounts.

    But as for your point about adding some extra attack power with those rams is exactly what I am talking about. Anyone who reads this thread and thinks it's a good idea to build a ram-only hammer is on a path to failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    Quick tests on a battle sim show there would have to only be between 600k and 700k wheat worth of defense in the wonder to get that report. You'd have to be insane to build for 6 months hoping to find a wonder that weak in endgame. But of course, the stars aligned properly and he DID find one. And I have to admit, that's an awesome looking BR. Forum posts and BRs are the only things that last from one round to the next, so I'd say it paid off.
    I don't think it is a great BR at all and obviously a waste of time and effort in my eyes. You can build like 12k catas and zero a WW with weak defense like that... Seeing "The World Wonder has been destroyed" is much more epic than seeing some wall get knocked down 75% by only rams and a hero.
    Last edited by Erbal; 12-05-2010 at 07:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal_ View Post
    I don't think it is a great BR at all and obviously a waste of time and effort in my eyes. You can build like 12k catas and zero a WW with weak defense like that... Seeing "The World Wonder has been destroyed" is much more epic than seeing some wall get knocked down 75% by only rams and a hero.
    "The World Wonder has been destroyed" isn't epic at all. There are probably a couple dozen reports that say that every year on .us servers alone. But how many reports have you seen before where siege alone successfully did damage on a Wonder attack?

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    Philosopher Marmot Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal_ View Post
    The .US servers have some serious issues with the number of players on their servers so I am sure you are right... it's just hard to imagine any elite players/accounts actually wanting to put in 9+ months of work on any server that drops down to only 1000 active accounts.
    It isn't just the US servers that the player base is down. It is happening everywhere. Even on .com, where there should be some of the largest player bases, the numbers are way down. Fun fact: On the championship play in server, where the Top 1,000 of each tribe qualify for the championship, as of right now only 25 Teutons won't make it to the next round. And since End game doesn't start there for another month or so...

    And that's part of the point of this guide, something you seem to either have missed, or have willfully pushed to one side if your efforts to be 'hardcore'. With lower player bases, different strategies become available. Why not push the envelope and be absurd? As long as you're having fun, does it matter in what manner you go about playing the game? No.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    "The World Wonder has been destroyed" isn't epic at all. There are probably a couple dozen reports that say that every year on .us servers alone. But how many reports have you seen before where siege alone successfully did damage on a Wonder attack?
    I wasn't trying to say destroying a crappy WW is really epic, just better in my eyes than almost knocking down a WW wall with only rams. The act of building a ram-only hammer and using it against a very poorly defended WW on a dead server, while still failing to destroy the wall, does not impress me. I could at least give some credit to a cat-only hammer that zero's a WW... but it would still be obvious that the WW did not have much defense so I still wouldn't be overly impressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmot Man View Post
    It isn't just the US servers that the player base is down. It is happening everywhere. Even on .com, where there should be some of the largest player bases, the numbers are way down. Fun fact: On the championship play in server, where the Top 1,000 of each tribe qualify for the championship, as of right now only 25 Teutons won't make it to the next round. And since End game doesn't start there for another month or so...

    And that's part of the point of this guide, something you seem to either have missed, or have willfully pushed to one side if your efforts to be 'hardcore'. With lower player bases, different strategies become available. Why not push the envelope and be absurd? As long as you're having fun, does it matter in what manner you go about playing the game? No.
    I've seen several non-US servers with 2 or even 3 times the player population as our servers. Those servers seem to be just fine and I'd be thrilled if things were like that here.

    For the record, I am not talking about slow servers. I hardly even recognize the existence of slow servers. I'm not trying to be 'hardcore', I just feel they are way too slow for me to to enjoy and there are too many slow servers, which results in splitting the player base more than what is necessary. Without speed servers, this game is simply not good enough to justify my time/energy/money.

    Trust me, when all the speed servers only have 1000 active accounts I won't feel the need to try new unorthodox strategies for fun that take months and months of work... I will feel the need to find a new game.

    Feel free to play the game however you want... I'd just hate to see some rookie try to follow this guide thinking this strategy will give good results on any server based on the positive responses to this guide, all because the fine details were purposely left out of the OP. Yes, you made a conscience decision to leave out the fine details like how the server is dead, the WW has horrible defense, and how this won't do jack against a real WW.
    Excuse me for disagreeing that your degeneracy is sacred.

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    Philosopher Marmot Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal_ View Post

    ...For the record, I am not talking about slow servers. I hardly even recognize the existence of slow servers. I'm not trying to be 'hardcore', I just feel they are way too slow for me to to enjoy...
    Aka, hardcore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal_
    ...I'd just hate to see some rookie try to follow this guide...
    Same here, which is why I put this in the opening part of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmot Man View Post

    Who is this guide for? This guide assumes that you have some experience in playing Travian. Beginners will be better suited searching in the guide section for one of the many well written treatises to help them learn the ropes of this fine game.

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    Me thinks that Erbal_ is incapable of finding fun in other manners of play. I personally found the Marmot rammer hilarious. Is it truly effective if you go back a year to the last round when every WW was packing 4M+ reins? No, it'd be laughable. This isn't the same travian as back then and he was able to take advantage of that by using a different strategy. It may not be good enough for you, but if your goal is to have fun without being overly stressed, I'd say this was a pretty good use of time.
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    yeah erbal, why you gotta hate?

    MM put up a funsies guide that was TITLED: "unorthodox", and it worked.

    so.......... stop trying to make it something it isn't. you didn't care for it? cool, move along.
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    Philosopher Sleeping Bear's Avatar
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    It would have been even cooler if you had 20k rams, and 1k cats, and zeroed both the wall and the WW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Bear View Post
    It would have been even cooler if you had 20k rams, and 1k cats, and zeroed both the wall and the WW.
    Wouldn't have happened -- the WW was at ~60 at the time.


    And I think one key point that Erbal is missing --
    Marmot Man is a MORON.
    That's not an insult -- that's a compliment.
    He was part of a small, but extremely resilient alliance (MORON, in case you didn't catch on yet) that spent 70% of the server building villages in the shape of an M with a box around it. And while doing that, he built a ram-only hammer -- not thinking "hey this will be epic, I can pound any WW to dust with it" but thinking, "hey, this'll be hysterical when it hits someone and I bet I can take a few levels off a WW". In point of fact, he hit a poorly defended WW with what turned into an Epic BR. I lost a bunch of troops at that WW (it was followed by 4 other MORONs) but even I have to admit that his rammer was brilliant.

    Would it work everywhere?
    No... but it'll work often enough to make it worth trying again.

    Would it work on a speed server?
    Ehhh... , probably not.
    But you have to realize a slow server ends up with vastly fewer troops than a speed server.
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    That's one bad *** rammer First time I've seen that!
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    It's stuff like this that keeps me interested in the game. I think it's great when people try out innovative things to keep their interest in the game alive and fresh. Having fun here is what it's all about. Awesome.

    Don't worry, Marmot; they bashed Dadaism as well. Absurdists for the win.

  22. #22

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    I'm impressed.
    The best, guide I've seen yet.

  23. #23

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    Here's the full BR from MM's hit.



    ...and if my attempt at saving you an extra click failed, here is the link.

    http://travian-reports.net/us/report/698960cb9de
    US2:r2: Talieland2 ~ BZE/BAM
    US5:r2: littlegirllost ~ ROBR
    US4:r3/r4: Wild Hope ~ MORON


  24. #24
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    That is a disappointing amount of defense in a WW, if I am not wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    That is a disappointing amount of defense in a WW, if I am not wrong.
    Yes, but that was pointed out - 8 years ago. The amazing thing is, the ram hammer had nothing but a hero as an escort and did serious damage to the wall, and an earth wall at that.

    You're as bad as Erbal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    Yes, but that was pointed out - 8 years ago. The amazing thing is, the ram hammer had nothing but a hero as an escort and did serious damage to the wall, and an earth wall at that.

    You're as bad as Erbal.
    Rams work just as well with or without troops accompanying it. If there was a hammer with the rams, it would have boosted the hammer's offensive capabilities. That's all that would happen, so this is a legit and good way to use rams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Rams work just as well with or without troops accompanying it. If there was a hammer with the rams, it would have boosted the hammer's offensive capabilities. That's all that would happen, so this is a legit and good way to use rams.
    That is patently false. See the below kirilloid sims as proof.

    20k Rams with no hammer:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log2.php...QRz4r-Cv9_MIAA

    Same 20k Rams with a hammer:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log2.php...oDceAP_KxPNCoA

    I'm sorry but this is an absolutely abysmal way to use rams. Literally the least efficient way to use rams, aside from not using them at all. Yeah, it can do the job when there is horrible defense like in the above report, but with any respectable defense, no, not going to cut it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    That is patently false. See the below kirilloid sims as proof.

    20k Rams with no hammer:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log2.php...QRz4r-Cv9_MIAA

    Same 20k Rams with a hammer:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log2.php...oDceAP_KxPNCoA

    I'm sorry but this is an absolutely abysmal way to use rams. Literally the least efficient way to use rams, aside from not using them at all. Yeah, it can do the job when there is horrible defense like in the above report, but with any respectable defense, no, not going to cut it.
    It seems like I was wrong ... Thanks for the correction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

  29. #29

    Dan Chak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    That is patently false. See the below kirilloid sims as proof.

    20k Rams with no hammer:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log2.php...QRz4r-Cv9_MIAA

    Same 20k Rams with a hammer:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/log2.php...oDceAP_KxPNCoA

    I'm sorry but this is an absolutely abysmal way to use rams. Literally the least efficient way to use rams, aside from not using them at all. Yeah, it can do the job when there is horrible defense like in the above report, but with any respectable defense, no, not going to cut it.
    Well, we were MORONS, after all. And we were more interested in the giant 'M' we were making than hammers, to be perfectly honest. We also chose the Wonder, if I remember correctly, only because the leader irritated us or made us laugh or some such.
    We had already won the server when we completed our M. World Wonders were nothing other than a distraction.
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

  30. #30
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    Oh yes, I'm aware, and I am not trying to take anything away from that. I just want to be clear that this is truly an "unorthodox" rammer, and that there are more effective uses for rams.
    My first hammer: s8r1 - mhisti
    Not my first hammer: s1r4 - Loved1

    s1r7 - Ifrit 3,111,384 offense points

    [6:49:56 PM] Bugzy: Let's report Ifrit for genocide

  31. #31

    Dan Chak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    Oh yes, I'm aware, and I am not trying to take anything away from that. I just want to be clear that this is truly an "unorthodox" rammer, and that there are more effective uses for rams.
    Well... get off my lawn!!

    ...I mean, good!
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

  32. #32
    Senator Cisalpine's Avatar
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    I need to favorite this. I want to try being a ram hammer once before I retire for good. I miss his posts! I didn't know him as good as y'all did, but he was super nice and SOOO funny. Now HIS posts are necro worthy. Someone should find the hero diary and necro THAT one.

  33. #33

    Dan Chak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisalpine View Post
    I need to favorite this. I want to try being a ram hammer once before I retire for good. I miss his posts! I didn't know him as good as y'all did, but he was super nice and SOOO funny. Now HIS posts are necro worthy. Someone should find the hero diary and necro THAT one.
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.p...ighlight=diary
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

  34. #34
    Senator Cisalpine's Avatar
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    Ahhh. Thanks! I've saved it.

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