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Thread: Guide: How to Build a World Wonder

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    Exclamation Guide: How to Build a World Wonder

    World Wonder Build Plan


    With my 1,000th post I wanted to give back to the Travian community that has given me so much, friends, fun and hours of endless entertainment. I was amazed there were no guides to building a WW not even in the Complete Guide to End Game. It really is the most important aspect of the game and is often horribly messed up by the individual(s) managing the WW. I’ve seen top 10 alliances with an inexperienced officer core build up their World Wonders to high levels only to find they did not have enough warehouse or granary space, have to tear down, rebuild it and lose because of their wasted time. There for I’ve broken this down into its basic form. I will not cover information that has already been covered in the Complete Guide to End Game (ex. Plans) therefore you should consult that guide in addition to this one. Now, lets focus on the actual World Wonder.

    Here are the simple facts:
    • WW Level 100 requires one million wood, one million clay, one million iron and 193,630 wheat. Thus you will need the warehouse and granary space to save up for this final level.
    • Level 1 through 100 require a total cost of 34,153,600 wood 35, 321,675 clay 36,853,455 iron and 6,754,780 wheat. Combined that’s over 100 million resources that will need to be pushed to the World Wonder.
    • Time. Not including the time you spend building infrastructure (Great Warehouses, Great Granaries, etc) the actual WW levels will take 948:17:50 (Main Building Level 8) 914:08:40 (Main Building Level 9) 881:14:40 (Main Building Level 10) 849:31:20 (Main Building Level 11) and 818:57:20 (Main Building Level 12). The later one is 34 days assuming all builds are consecutive.
    • Attacks. Your WW will be attacked, likely by hammers consuming a hundred thousand in wheat or more, your Main Building will be destroyed, your WW levels knocked down and your infrastructure destroyed. With these other factors in play it could realistically take two months to build your WW.


    This is an ENORMOUS investment. No NPCing. No Golding Up buildings. Over 100 million resources. Over two months of building. Daunting isn’t it? In addition to this you need to be able to feed the several million defenders you will likely have at the WW.

    Tropps eat half at the WW.
    The above garrison is 3 million troops.


    No individual account can do this. This will be a team effort requiring coordination from a full alliance and constant attention.

    So…

    Here’s a basic step by step guide:
    1. FIND PEOPLE YOU TRUST. Every round it seems someone where, some how betrays someone else. The last thing you want is a spy on your WW team or your WW account holder defecting to another alliance because a) he was their friend all along or b) because you two have a personality conflict. Designate people you trust to take them and then take them.
    2. FIND PEOPLE WHO HAVE TIME. At midnight when WW level 98 finishes you do not want to wait until 8:00 AM when you arrive back at the office to click the level 99 button. That’s eight lost hours. I have been on four World Wonders, three of the four came in second place by hours. Over two months every minute you waste adds up to be hours in the end.
    3. In identifying a holder pay attention to their tribe. I prefer Teuton. Its explained more fully in the Complete Guide to End Game. I’d rather have a Roman or Gaul who I trusted than a Teuton I didn’t.
    4. Build a WW team. Have some expendable accounts? Delete them and put the players on the WW. Have friends from other servers you can trust? Have them come over. Take the two most trust worthy super active accounts not holding a WW you have and have them sit the WW. My WW teams have consisted of three people, 8 people, 8 people and 9 people. Constant 24/7 coverage is ideal.
    5. As you approach end game all players should stop settling villages and save the Culture Points up to drop AT LEAST two villages with in proximity to their WW.
    6. All of the above should be taken care of ahead of before the Natars spawn.
    7. When the World Wonders spawn villages should be settled around the WW immediately. Active players willing to gold up their villages should get the closest proximity to the WW.
    8. The WW team (the holding account and both sitters) should settle multiple caches around the WW. 2 villages each this should be 6 villages. The cache principle is something I came up with years ago and my principle involves hording resources at these locations to get the WW through the hard times. The WW holder should have two sitters, s/he should sit both sitters and each sitter should sit one another. In this manner all three have access to the cache villages and when resources (wheat in particular) are in emergency demand they can be pushed from these villages using a high level Trade Office and marketplace.

    9. Launch an attempt to chief your WW as soon as they are removed from ban. There is no residence and no palace. You may wish to stack smaller hammers ahead of a larger hammer in order to preserve it for later.

    10. Send reinforcements to land after your chief attempt. Do not wait for ownership.
    11. Begin shipping in wheat in many small loads. You will have a small granary capacity and should have alot of troops. Starvation will happen. You should let them cannibalize each other in order to insure this WW does not fall into enemy hands.
    12. Build a level 1 residence to get loyalty up, then get your wall up followed by granaries and your basic warehouses. Build all level one, then all level two, then all level 3, repeat this process. This benefits you by preserving build time. If you build a level 20 before starting your next Warehouse/Granary and it gets destroyed you’re in a world of hurt. If you have five going at a time you’ll take less of hit and the individual build times are shorter (I.e. level 6 to 7, then level 6 to 7, compared with 18 to 19). In this manner all three of my US2R3 World Wonders were building infrastructure faster than our enemies.
    13. If you have a build ending in the middle of the night make sure someone is there to que the next build or in a worst case scenario set an alarm to wake up and do it your self. You can lose a lot of hours of build time letting stuff sit idle over night.
    14. MOST IMPORTANT. The reason I wrote this guide, have a build plan so you know what you are building and that you have every thing you need. A Great Warehouse will provide you with 240,000 storage. You can get to your 1 million a multiple ways:

      • One level 20 great warehouse (240,000), three level 19 great warehouses (597,600) , one level 18 great warehouse (165,300).
      • One level 20 great warehouse (240,000), three level 19 great warehouses (597,600) and two standard warehouses (160,000).
      • Three level 20 great warehouses (720,000), three level 20 standard warehouses (240,000) and one level 17 standard warehouse (45,700)


      There are many other possibilities, just as many combinations of granary and great granary and combined dozens of variations you can use to build your World Wonder. You should do the math your self (thus why I did not include Granary combinations), compare estimated build times and try to come up with your model. For the sake of this post however I will provide you with plans for WW that I have used.


      • FIVE Great Warehouses
      • FOUR Great Granaries
      • Two Warehouses
      • Two Granaries
      • One marketplace
      • One Mainbuilding



      Please note we tore down the residence for a build space, also note in comparing the before and after pictures that the earlier picture had a great warehouse at the top and in the later picture its gone. It was destroyed by enemy action. In the end we finished with four great warehouses and two standard warehouses in addition to two great granaries and two standard granaries.


    In the end though it doesn’t matter how fast you can get to 100, it matters who can throw the last punch.
    Last edited by Lord Bane; 11-09-2010 at 11:31 PM.

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    Nice guide, I've always been curious about the infrastructure of a WW, seeing as I've never been on one.

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    Nice guide
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    Good Job LB.

    It is nice for those who haven't been on a WW to actually see what is inside and to help give some general information.

  5. #5

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    Those two buildings behind the wonder must be a pain in the butt

  6. #6

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    Thank you everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrog245 View Post
    Those two buildings behind the wonder must be a pain in the butt
    Nice you say that. You can click them but might want that to be something you're not clicking often (basic granary, basic warehouse) as opposed to something you click often (i.e. marketplace).

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    Thank you for this guide.Perhaps i will built a World Wonder in the future.

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    Very good job
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    Philosopher MokMonster's Avatar
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    Overall a nice guide.
    Good information here.

    A few thoughts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    [*]Time. Not including the time you spend building infrastructure (Great Warehouses, Great Granaries, etc) the actual WW levels will take 948:17:50 (Main Building Level 8) 914:08:40 (Main Building Level 9) 881:14:40 (Main Building Level 10) 849:31:20 (Main Building Level 11) and 818:57:20 (Main Building Level 12). The later one is 34 days assuming all builds are consecutive.
    Why wouldn't you get the MB to 20? You can take nearly 9 days off of that 34... not to mention the time you can take off the various GG, GWh, G, Wh.
    The extra 8 levels don't take all that much time to build, and pay for themselves in the long run. You say every second counts, but you're adding days to your build...

    Also, I know you had 3M in troops there, but why on earth do you have Imps, Maces, Swords, Axes and TTs guarding the WW? By my quick count you have ~70k wheat in utterly useless troops and I'm not even counting the 75k for the EI, the 130k for the EC or the 20k for the TKs. At least those are adequate defenders (awful per wheat, tho). (And the chiefs, rams and cats all need to go as well, but their wheat-impact was too small to notice.) Taken together you had nearly 300k worth of useless defenders out of your ~3M. That's about 10% of your total upkeep.
    Just saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrog245 View Post
    Those two buildings behind the wonder must be a pain in the butt
    Worst case scenario you go to a different town, click on the building in that space, then switch views to the WW. Pain in the ****, yeah, but doable.
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  10. #10

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    Because those troops in a WW eat 1/2 wheat... I've seen several who send troops to the WW waiting to send off on their mission.

  11. #11

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    I was sitting a WW and stored my hammer inside it, a lot of" free" crop that could be eaten by the defence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    Overall a nice guide.
    Good information here.

    A few thoughts:


    Why wouldn't you get the MB to 20? You can take nearly 9 days off of that 34... not to mention the time you can take off the various GG, GWh, G, Wh.
    The extra 8 levels don't take all that much time to build, and pay for themselves in the long run. You say every second counts, but you're adding days to your build...
    His screenshots show a 20 MB, so it looks like that bit of wisdom is actually heeded. But yeah, his explanation of build orders starting out is a bit confusing. You start with a MB 15, so I dunno why the level 8-12 MB speeds are mentioned at all.

    As a point of interest, the starting infrastructure of a WW might be worth seeing.



    So that's:
    0 World Wonder
    15 Main building
    1 Marketplace
    20 Warehouse
    10 Warehouse
    20 Granary
    10 Granary
    5 Cranny (I'm pretty sure I hadn't started demolishing it before that screenshot).

    So notably, no rally point. You will want one of those ASAP.

    Upon taking the WW, first thing is either to get a residence (if you have an incoming attack coming in something like under 30 minutes away) in the hopes that your attacker did not send catapults to conquer the WW. Otherwise get that rally point so you can identify incomings and figure out how bad it looks, possibly IGM allies with incomings and figure out if they are betrayals or just poorly coordinated. Defense hopefully will be arriving in force seconds (or immediately) after your conquer succeeds but more information is always good.

    After you have your rally and/or residence, you will want to turn your eye to either wall, granary or main building, depending upon what your situation is.

    If you have good feeders set up already (sometimes you get lucky with a large account right on top of the WW, or people settling + golding up feeders before the WW unbans) then the granary is less of a concern. If you know someone is coming to take your WW with major force then the wall is a priority. If you have no serious incomings then you may as well work on that main building right away up to 20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    Why wouldn't you get the MB to 20? You can take nearly 9 days off of that 34
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    His screenshots show a 20 MB, so it looks like that bit of wisdom is actually heeded.
    I only included the middle numbers due to the fact that I have frequently seen the MB targeted. It should absolutely be level 20 however.

    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    why on earth do you have Imps, Maces, Swords, Axes and TTs guarding the WW?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarasvati View Post
    Because those troops in a WW eat 1/2 wheat... I've seen several who send troops to the WW waiting to send off on their mission.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3NT View Post
    I was sitting a WW and stored my hammer inside it, a lot of" free" crop that could be eaten by the defence.
    If you manage well enough to avoid starvation its an excellent place to store a hammer That’s more advanced theory that I wasn’t looking to get into here, I just wanted an example of actual wheat consumption and reins at a WW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    If you know someone is coming to take your WW with major force then the wall is a priority.
    I beleive it should be a priority as regardless of what you expect. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You don't want to be betrayed or just have a standard enemy hammer suddenly coming in and then deciding you want a wall.

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    Philosopher MokMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    If you manage well enough to avoid starvation its an excellent place to store a hammer That’s more advanced theory that I wasn’t looking to get into here, I just wanted an example of actual wheat consumption and reins at a WW.
    Yeah, that was what I figured, but it should be pointed out -- if you're going to provide the SS as an example, you ought to point out the different things it shows.
    Especially since it was pretty clear there was (most of) a roman hammer there (sans the siege), but there's no reason for the 6k swords and 7k TTs or the 7k axes... Those amount of troops aren't worthy of storing there for the 1/2 consumption (and those TTs are better off feeding themselves or splatting somewhere on an enemy hammer as a mini-ghost).
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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    there's no reason for the 6k swords and 7k TTs or the 7k axes...
    I truthfully do not recall why those particular units were there at the time so I won't debate the validity of them being stationed or not used in another matter. What I will say is they're not horrible defenders in a pinch.

    TTs defend infantry 25 and calvary 40
    Axe defend infantry 30 and calvary 30
    Swords defend infantry 35 calvary 20

    These are not great numbers BUT a spearman defends infantry at 35 (not much better than Axe), the Phalanx defends infantry at 40 (not much better than Swords),and the Praetorian defends Calvary at 35 (slightly worse than TTs and only slightly better than Axe). Now if those units were not one persons hammer but perhaps left over pieces of several hammers or raiding villages and no longer had much value offensively they could then have some value at the WW with a wall bonus and hero bonus under the right set of circumstances. This is just for the sake argument though as I do not recall the specifics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    I truthfully do not recall why those particular units were there at the time so I won't debate the validity of them being stationed or not used in another matter. What I will say is they're not horrible defenders in a pinch.

    TTs defend infantry 25 and calvary 40
    Axe defend infantry 30 and calvary 30
    Swords defend infantry 35 calvary 20

    These are not great numbers BUT a spearman defends infantry at 35 (not much better than Axe)
    Your assessment of defensive value of units is fail.

    1) You failed to factor in the amount of defense provided FOR wheat. In which case a TT would provide half the values listed
    2) You can't take the weak stat of a defender and then compare it to the best stat of another unit legitamitly
    3) If you are going to list defense, you should compare total defense. IOW, swords have total defense of 55 while a phalanx has a total defense of 90.

    en masse, all units can be used for defense, it's irrelevant in the long run what is in the WW, because it is ALL used to defend the WW. There is a hard limit on how many spears are on the server and available to be sent to the WW, above that point additional defense is always better, and because the casualties are spread equally it reduces casualties for the better defensive units. One of the problems however with offensive troops pressed into a defensive role, is that they tend to arrive in less numbers and thus are less likely to starve due to starvation rules. Starvation hitting praets is much worse than starvation hitting axes. That said, placing a WW hammer onto a WW is actually good, because it will likely be the largest rein group, and thus be the first to experience starvation, which preserves the remaining better defensive troops.
    Last edited by Sirveri; 11-11-2010 at 03:14 AM. Reason: typo correction

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    Also, I know you had 3M in troops there, but why on earth do you have Imps, Maces, Swords, Axes and TTs guarding the WW? By my quick count you have ~70k wheat in utterly useless troops and I'm not even counting the 75k for the EI, the 130k for the EC or the 20k for the TKs. At least those are adequate defenders (awful per wheat, tho). (And the chiefs, rams and cats all need to go as well, but their wheat-impact was too small to notice.) Taken together you had nearly 300k worth of useless defenders out of your ~3M. That's about 10% of your total upkeep.
    Just saying.
    Any wonder is going to get some annoying, fake reins from opposing alliances. As a former wonder holder, it's not worth my time to filter through the thousands of reins to find the 21 single catapults that were sent from spent hammer villages. That's likely where some of the smaller amounts of offensive troops came from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autonomous Will View Post
    Any wonder is going to get some annoying, fake reins from opposing alliances. As a former wonder holder, it's not worth my time to filter through the thousands of reins to find the 21 single catapults that were sent from spent hammer villages. That's likely where some of the smaller amounts of offensive troops came from.
    Ctrl+F is an easy way to find the catas and clubbies etc sent from enemies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    Your assessment of defensive value of units is fail.
    ^this.

    I'm sure there were reasons at the time why maces or TTs were there in those quantities, but there's no justification for saying it is good for the defense... unless you had absolute knowledge that there were enough hammers on the way to zero your WW and you had no additional real defense to call on.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3NT View Post
    Ctrl+F is an easy way to find the catas and clubbies etc sent from enemies.
    Uhh... and search for what, exactly?
    "maceman" isn't something searchable. Nor is the image of the unit. And if you knew the name of the town or player, it is b/c you already found it...
    I suppose if you wanted you could go through all of the rein reports and look for the false reins and then search based on that information... but I don't think anyone actually looks at those reports considering that most WW have hundreds of incoming at any given time.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    but there's no justification for saying it is good for the defense... unless you had absolute knowledge that there were enough hammers on the way to zero your WW and you had no additional real defense to call on.
    What I said was:
    “they're not horrible defenders in a pinch.”
    “they could then have some value at the WW with a wall bonus and hero bonus under the right set of circumstances.”
    This is different than saying they are good for defense. Lets argue they are for a moment, as there's no justification for not sending them in an emergeancy, and go back to Sirveri's response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    en masse, all units can be used for defense, it's irrelevant in the long run what is in the WW, because it is ALL used to defend the WW. There is a hard limit on how many spears are on the server and available to be sent to the WW, above that point additional defense is always better, and because the casualties are spread equally it reduces casualties for the better defensive units.
    There's only so much D on the server and additional defense is always better. It does not mean that you have to have "absolute knowledge" because most meta do not have such insight into thier opponents (not to say it can not be gained) and "enough hammers on the way to zero your WW" falsely assumes the only way to lose is to zero a WW. So lets construct a hypothetical pinch with the right set of circumstances.

    There's a three way war, you (alliance A), an elite hard hitting raider alliance (alliance B) and a simmer meta (alliance C). Let's say that all three of you are roughly in the same spot (level 98ish), its anyones race and all but one hammer (alliance B's) has been used. Let's say that due to spies you know alliance B's hammer is good but not great and may knock down a single level of a WW and you don't know if its coming at you (alliance A) or the simmers (alliance C). All the D you can find is already at the WW and you can feed it.

    Using the screen shot available and speaking in terms of total defense you have 7947 axe (476,820 D), 5289 swords (290,895 D) and 7659 TT (497,835 D) for a total of 1,265,550 defense. A phalanx as Sirveri said has a total defensive value of 90 so divide 1,265,550 by 90 and you have the equivalent in total D terms of 14,061 Phalanx. Do you say "well I don't have absolute knowledge thats its coming to me and if it does there are not enough hammers on the way to zero my WW so I'm not going to provide a little makeshift D"? You might. I always err on the side of caution.
    Last edited by Lord Bane; 11-12-2010 at 03:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    I suppose if you wanted you could go through all of the rein reports and look for the false reins and then search based on that information... but I don't think anyone actually looks at those reports considering that most WW have hundreds of incoming at any given time.
    I do
    It's not really that hard, when you look at the rein reports most of the names are quickly identifiable as your allies. While there may be a few hundred rein reports each day, its just the same people sending reins every day.
    Of course it is also often the same people sending "joke" reins every day, which makes it fairly easy to find them and send them home.

    It's a worthwhile activity, not just to get rid of the offense, but you'll also find opponents who send 100 phalanx. Those are there to get "scout reports" on your defense. You can look at the percentage of troops lost for a Natar attack to get a rough estimate of how much defense is in each of your opponents wonders (I've also landed my hero 1 min before a natar attack on an opponents wonder to do the same thing).

    And while reading the RP is a pain, there are parsers available that you can paste a copy of your RP into that make it much faster.

    S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie (night shift) S5-r3 Tyche (night shift) S7-r3 Chuckles (night shift)
    S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country (day shift) S5-r7(AEU) Office Space S19-r2 (SE) The Joker

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    but I don't think anyone actually looks at those reports considering that most WW have hundreds of incoming at any given time.
    I did.

    + we sent false reinf back so fast that usually we just could search after the number of troops.
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    The closer you get to level 100 the less fussy you should be about what troops you accept.

    Once you reach level 90 even catas + rams are worth it for defence...

    100 catas = 1000K defence ... OK so it's only the same as 20 phalanx and they eat more wheat - but at this stage every little helps.

    Troops starve, protecting the WW is more important than keeping every troop alive.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone. View Post
    Once you reach level 90 even catas + rams are worth it for defence...

    100 catas = 1000K defence ... OK so it's only the same as 20 phalanx and they eat more wheat - but at this stage every little helps.

    Troops starve, protecting the WW is more important than keeping every troop alive.
    The problem is 100 cats eat 300 wheat per hour. When troops starve, the largest group starves first (likely phalanx or praets). If you already have starving troops you are going to starve an additional 10 phalanx every hour (300 wheat worth). You are staving 900 defense every hour to feed 7000 defense, after 8 hours the cats have killed more defense then they added.

    Now obviously you should be no where near constant starvation, and hopefully you won't get 8 hours of starvation during the 67 hours it takes to go from 90 to 100. So maybe it will increase your total defense, but I don't think the "kitchen sink" approach should go as far as troops that are only ~10 defense per wheat.

    S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie (night shift) S5-r3 Tyche (night shift) S7-r3 Chuckles (night shift)
    S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country (day shift) S5-r7(AEU) Office Space S19-r2 (SE) The Joker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    The problem is 100 cats eat 300 wheat per hour. When troops starve, the largest group starves first (likely phalanx or praets). If you already have starving troops you are going to starve an additional 10 phalanx every hour (300 wheat worth). You are staving 900 defense every hour to feed 7000 defense, after 8 hours the cats have killed more defense then they added.

    Now obviously you should be no where near constant starvation, and hopefully you won't get 8 hours of starvation during the 67 hours it takes to go from 90 to 100. So maybe it will increase your total defense, but I don't think the "kitchen sink" approach should go as far as troops that are only ~10 defense per wheat.
    Does this mean it's a viable approach to build 100-200 cats out of multiple villages and try to hide them in a WW defense?
    Remember, this is an online forum. I have just as much poo to fling as you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    So if you can suck a golf bar through a garden hose and are willing to do so for the biggest/safest/most-survivalist man around, you will most likely live as long as he will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    Does this mean it's a viable approach to build 100-200 cats out of multiple villages and try to hide them in a WW defense?
    I was seriously considering doing this. However I figured that the enemy would catch on and simply send them back. Then again they probably had incoming reins all the time, so maybe not! If you do it you'd probably want to wait until the hammers start to drop, then the opposition will likely focus their defense in a specific wonder and make it easier to sneak in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    Does this mean it's a viable approach to build 100-200 cats out of multiple villages and try to hide them in a WW defense?
    If there are 3 million wheat worth of defenders in a wonder, even starving 30k only lowers the defense by 1%. You'd probably get more benefit from your cats targeting random wonder feeders.

    But if you do plan to hide troops in an enemy wonder, your success chance will go up if:
    1) You rename your village to match an enemy anvil village. The title of the rein report is "Village Name reinforces Wonder Village". The wonder holder will regularly see rein reports from the same villages, so copying one of those names may trick them into deleting the report without reading it.
    2) As you mentioned, send small numbers from multiple villages. If I saw 12 catapults in the wonder, the first thing I would search for in the RP for the number 12. That doesn't work if they are there in 3 sets of 4.

    S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie (night shift) S5-r3 Tyche (night shift) S7-r3 Chuckles (night shift)
    S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country (day shift) S5-r7(AEU) Office Space S19-r2 (SE) The Joker

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