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Thread: Guide to Hero Selection

  1. #61
    Consul Wren's Avatar
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    I think I actually did the tests on that myself and worked with kirilloid to implement them. The PMs are lost forever.
    Retired.
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  2. #62

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    So what's the final verdic, multiplied or added?
    Excuse me for disagreeing that your degeneracy is sacred.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal_ View Post
    So what's the final verdict, multiplied or added?
    Ehhh, dunno. If I had to choose between my sources so far, I'll lean toward evidence obtained via kirilloid since their simulator seems pretty dead-on in most cases. So it does seem that the case for hero bonus being multiplicative has the strongest evidence.

    Heck, it is entirely possible that a few years ago in an older version of Travian when Woden's post was written it was true that heroes had additive bonuses and now they are multiplicative (perhaps in response to removing the gold +10% bonuses which *were* multiplicative). Seems like the kind of change that they might slip in without notifying anyone.

    If I had an account right now I could test it empirically, but that's out.

  4. #64
    Philosopher MokMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal_ View Post
    So what's the final verdict, multiplied or added?
    Hmmm...

    Here's what I did -- I sent 1k Imps against 2k phal (equal pop, no wall, no def hero, EI hero 0 attack points)
    First I established that Lvl 16 upgrades the same as having a 19% hero boost (83.3) and would generate similar results:
    1000 @ L16 + 0% = 940 dead Imps
    1000 @ L0 + 19% = 941 dead Imps

    Then I simulated an extra 19% to the AP by adding 20% more Imps:
    1190 @ L16 + 0% = 868 dead Imps
    1190 @ L0 + 19% = 869 dead Imps

    Then I checked the 1k Imps and gave them both bonuses:
    1000 @ L16 + 19% = 729 dead Imps

    Make of it what you will.
    MokMonster does not support, condone or agree with anything written in this post.
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  5. #65

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    Ehhhh, Mok... despite having run several simulations, none of those are sufficient tell you whether the hero bonus is multiplicative or additive with the upgrades. Also, since kirilloid lets you test without inputting the hero as any particular unit, you do not need to introduce that confounding element. Anywho, I already outlined how ya do it for testing sims.

    To test that you have to run 2 tests:
    A with upgrades and with a hero bonus equal to n%.
    B with upgrades, no hero bonus, and n% extra number of troops.

    results:
    A) 10k imp, lvl 20, hero 20% bonus vs 2k phal =69.3% dead.
    B) 12k imp, lvl 20, hero 0% bonus vs 2k phal =69.3% dead.

    If it is multiplicative then there should be no difference between having 20% more troops with upgrades versus having 20% more bonus. If it is additive then it is more effective to have more troops than to have the hero bonus.

    By dabbling with smaller numbers (1k vs 1.2k) I was able to get the % to differ by 0.1% but that may have just been a rounding difference or something. Seems like damage is equal on sims, which means hero bonus is multiplicative according to kirilloid's figures. Only better way to make certain is test it is in game.

  6. #66

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    Woden's post is wildly inaccurate. He ran his tests assuming a 1.5% upgrade per BS/Armory level. When the numbers didn't work out for a multiplicative bonus he assumed the additive bonus, when in fact it was the incorrect BS/armory numbers that threw the data off. I always thought it was odd that it was still stickied after Wren copied Kirilloid's calculation post over here.

    As for hero attack points, at some point the % bonus started affecting the hero itself (I think it was one of those quiet 3.6 changes). This is still not shown in Kirilloid's calculator, so solo heroes with high % bonuses will do a bit better than sims indicate.

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