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Thread: A Clockwork (backward) Orange: The Paris Accord

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    Default A Clockwork (backward) Orange: The Paris Accord

    http://www.climatecentral.org/news/d...greement-21500

    Trump believes that environmentalism and economic productivity are mutually exclusive, that emission standards hampers business, and that the Paris Accord was a way for other nations to take advantage of the America. Trump perhaps believes that GDP correlates with the burning of fossil fuels, the cheaper the resource the better for the economy.

    On the contrary, renewable enery is very viable, transportation can run on electricity instead of combustion engines and fossil fuels are losing abundance and are becoming more and more expensive to extract.

  2. #2
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    climate central is not a source.

    The reason Trump can back out of the treaty is that Obama refused to get advice and consent from the senate for this treaty. Obama failed again.

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    I don't think the US pulling out of the agreement will make much difference to the rest of the world, really. The economic imperatives are driving renewable now. America will lose out on the technology, IP and development in the new areas, and the old areas won't make much difference to the electors. Coal is no longer mined by men, so the jobs won't come back anyway. All that will happen is that big oil will get richer for a little while and americans will get sicker. America will no longer be a trusted participant in agreements, and any leadership you thought you were entitled to will be eroded.

    https://www.c2es.org/docUploads/busi...04-26-2017.pdf

    Your companies and states will continue to do what they think is right anyway, and the next president will have to double down on being cleaner to try to make up ground if they want any legitimacy. But it might be too late now.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    climate central is not a source.

    The reason Trump can back out of the treaty is that Obama refused to get advice and consent from the senate for this treaty. Obama failed again.

    Climate Central is actually a pretty good source, the directors and staff linked below include professors and scientists from Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, the NOAA etc.

    http://www.climatecentral.org/what-we-do/people

    There's more academic clout in Climate Central than Trump's entire cabinet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I don't think the US pulling out of the agreement will make much difference to the rest of the world, really. The economic imperatives are driving renewable now. America will lose out on the technology, IP and development in the new areas, and the old areas won't make much difference to the electors. Coal is no longer mined by men, so the jobs won't come back anyway. All that will happen is that big oil will get richer for a little while and americans will get sicker. America will no longer be a trusted participant in agreements, and any leadership you thought you were entitled to will be eroded.

    https://www.c2es.org/docUploads/busi...04-26-2017.pdf

    Your companies and states will continue to do what they think is right anyway, and the next president will have to double down on being cleaner to try to make up ground if they want any legitimacy. But it might be too late now.
    I agree with this and states like California has standards that go beyond the federal level, and many countries. California has done much for renewable energy and forcing automakers to sell cleaner cars and zero emission vehicles. Trump is actually motivating California to become more stringent on environmental standards.
    Last edited by Summer; 06-02-2017 at 03:09 AM.

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    Using american coal is "better" for the environment, because otherwise you will ship the factories to china, owner of the "dirtiest" coal on earth!

    Ironically Putin who accused "global warming" as propaganda against the russian economy, currently released the most expensive tender/auction in renewable energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
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    Interesting public opinion study done three years ago in 20 countries looking at proportion of the general population in each country climate who accept or reject the basic premise of climate change.

    Interestingly, climate change denial is strongest in the US, Great Britain and Australia.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...most-prevalent
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Can anyone link to the climate model from 2000 or earlier that has been the closest to correct? That would be a predictive model. I only ask because a laughable amount of them said New York City would be underwater by now.

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    I deny that human activities are the major cause of global warming.

    and I don't know who is the absolute .... who called the ever changing climate a climate change! was those people brain damaged? did they just realize the climate does change all the time? do they absolutely lack creativity?



    It is a deception for money making.

    I believe, however, cleaner/renewable energy is better because they produce less gases/particles that affects the health of people and other creatures, but those who wants to make money out of people don't care about health. they care about scaring people to make unethical fast money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

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    The climate dynamics in the Arctic and Antarctic areas are very different. While ice coverage in Antarctica has ben increasing, coverage in the Arctic has been decreasing, and more ice cover has been lost in the Arctic than gained in the Antarctic, for a net loss of global ice cap coverage.

    The world's climate is a very complex system.

    https://insideclimatenews.org/news/3...global-warming
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    The world's climate is a very complex system.
    Which means that human is major contributor in it is a debatable theory/principle not an indisputable fact
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Which means that human is major contributor in it is a debatable theory/principle not an indisputable fact
    So is gravity

    https://skepticalscience.com/compari...edictions.html
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    Can anyone link to the climate model from 2000 or earlier that has been the closest to correct? That would be a predictive model. I only ask because a laughable amount of them said New York City would be underwater by now.
    Here's a youtube video from the 1950s

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m-AXBbuDxRY

    How accurate is the prediction?

    2016 is the warmest year on record since keeping track of global temperatures began in the 1880s. In fact 10 of the warmest years on record are after 1998, there is a trend that the earth is warming as predicted in the 1950s.

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...ecord-globally

    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Interesting public opinion study done three years ago in 20 countries looking at proportion of the general population in each country climate who accept or reject the basic premise of climate change.

    Interestingly, climate change denial is strongest in the US, Great Britain and Australia.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...most-prevalent
    Which is interesting because much of the research on climate change has come from scientists from the UK, Australia, and the USA.
    Last edited by Summer; 06-02-2017 at 03:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    gravity has law, global warming doesn't!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    http://www.climatecentral.org/news/d...greement-21500

    Trump believes that environmentalism and economic productivity are mutually exclusive, that emission standards hampers business, and that the Paris Accord was a way for other nations to take advantage of the America. Trump perhaps believes that GDP correlates with the burning of fossil fuels, the cheaper the resource the better for the economy.

    On the contrary, renewable enery is very viable, transportation can run on electricity instead of combustion engines and fossil fuels are losing abundance and are becoming more and more expensive to extract.
    Do you eat meat?

  15. #15

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    Did you guys see Trump trolling the situation? Lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Do you eat meat?
    I'm vegetarian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    I'm vegetarian.
    Acceptable.

    My favorite thing has been to point out to people who were complaining about this that hey eat meat and therefore contribute personally to climate change in pretty much the worst possible way.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    My favorite thing has been to point out to people who were complaining about this that hey eat meat and therefore contribute personally to climate change in pretty much the worst possible way.
    Do you travel by air

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

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    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    When are all these angry celebrities going to start fighting global warming by flying commercial instead of private jets?
    Last edited by The Blazin1; 06-03-2017 at 06:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Would have been smart for Obama to get advice and consent from the senate on the treaty then.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    Would have been smart for Obama to get advice and consent from the senate on the treaty then.
    The Paris Agreement was an agreement not a treaty.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...onal-realities

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    The Paris Agreement was an agreement not a treaty.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...onal-realities

    It is a treaty that Obama refused to get advice and consent from the senate.

    It is no longer because Obama wanted it to be a nonbinding "agreement."

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    It is a treaty that Obama refused to get advice and consent from the senate.

    It is no longer because Obama wanted it to be a nonbinding "agreement."
    It was entered into as an executive agreement, that's different than a treaty.

    http://constitution.findlaw.com/arti...otation12.html
    Last edited by Summer; 06-03-2017 at 06:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    It was entered into as an executive agreement, that's different than a treaty.

    http://constitution.findlaw.com/arti...otation12.html
    Is reading hard for you?

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    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Summer, how can you live with yourself buying a car that leaves such a large carbon footprint?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    Is reading hard for you?
    The Paris Agreement is not a treaty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    The Paris Agreement is not a treaty.
    It was a treaty, now it is a fart in the wind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    It was a treaty, now it is a fart in the wind.
    Your sentence contributes (about 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%) to global warming by releasing methane, be respectful!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    It was a treaty, now it is a fart in the wind.
    The Paris Agreement is, an agreement.

    The Paris Agreement was both designed and ratified as an agreement.

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    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Why are you avoiding my question Summer? You are one of those people who expect everyone else to suffer for "global warming" while burning up the environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    The Paris Agreement is, an agreement.

    The Paris Agreement was both designed and ratified as an agreement.
    It was a treaty that was never ratified.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Why are you avoiding my question Summer? You are one of those people who expect everyone else to suffer for "global warming" while burning up the environment.
    Sure, I'll answer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Summer, how can you live with yourself buying a car that leaves such a large carbon footprint?
    Electric cars do not have exhaust systems, nor do they require the use of carbon for propulsion. Electric cars plug into the energy grid and can run off of renewable energy, such as electricity made from the wind or the sun. Because electric cars run on electricity and not on hydrocarbons, the carbon footprint is less than cars that require gasoline.
    Last edited by Summer; 06-03-2017 at 07:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Electric cars do not have exhaust systems, nor do they require the use of carbon for propulsion. Electric cars plug into the energy grid and can run off of renewable energy, such as electricity made from the wind or the sun. Because electric cars run on electricity and not on hydrocarbons, the carbon footprint is less than cars that require gasoline.
    You should stop buying anything from the market, since it is delivered by vehicles and produced in factories which both produce greenhouses gases most of the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    You should stop buying anything from the market, since it is delivered by vehicles and produced in factories which both produce greenhouses gases most of the time!

    I invest in greener infrastructure by purchasing electricty from electric car charging stations, allowing them to build more charging stations that can sustain more electric vehicles. By purchasing an electric car I provide money to battery manufacturers that are able to improve electric vehicle technology. In the future, commercial trucks and buses may run entirely on electricity, the benefits are cleaner air, less chances of devastating oil spills that pollutes land and water. A large portion of the oil that is used for petroleum comes from Saudi Arabia, a financier of terrorism.

    The choice to me seems kinda obvious as to which team to be on.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    The choice to me seems kinda obvious as to which team to be on.
    your dream house:

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    your dream house:

    Those estimates are always with one third solar and two thirds filler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  38. #38
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Those estimates are always with one third solar and two thirds filler.
    Depends where you live. My neighbors have 5KW standard panel system, only pay 2 months a year for any power, and get rebates the rest. Net cost about $50/year. They are getting a battery next year. Big roof, couple who travel a lot, and are away some of most winters. Here, I could go $0 bill with payback in 5-7 years, if I just add to the current panels, and lose the pool pump, so will be doing that and adding a battery in a couple of years. Not off grid, but very close. Lady a few of doors down built an eco-designed house about 5 years ago. Has never paid a power bill. Without govt subsidy rates, would still be very close.

    We are toying with the idea of renovating a nearby house and moving. If we do, I'll seriously look at the solar tiles if they are available here by then.

    Of course we get lots of lovely sunshine..... Winter here, sunny, mid 20s (C) all week. Yay (sad face for farmers).
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Depends where you live. My neighbors have 5KW standard panel system, only pay 2 months a year for any power, and get rebates the rest. Net cost about $50/year. They are getting a battery next year. Big roof, couple who travel a lot, and are away some of most winters. Here, I could go $0 bill with payback in 5-7 years, if I just add to the current panels, and lose the pool pump, so will be doing that and adding a battery in a couple of years. Not off grid, but very close. Lady a few of doors down built an eco-designed house about 5 years ago. Has never paid a power bill. Without govt subsidy rates, would still be very close.

    We are toying with the idea of renovating a nearby house and moving. If we do, I'll seriously look at the solar tiles if they are available here by then.

    Of course we get lots of lovely sunshine..... Winter here, sunny, mid 20s (C) all week. Yay (sad face for farmers).
    No, I mean the estimates Tesla releases on their roofs. They admit the estimates are for 1/3 solar tiles, and 2/3 aesthetics. You can obviously wish out a lot more money for more of the former and less of the latter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  40. #40
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    No, I mean the estimates Tesla releases on their roofs. They admit the estimates are for 1/3 solar tiles, and 2/3 aesthetics. You can obviously wish out a lot more money for more of the former and less of the latter.
    Ah. Just looked into it. It's because of the cost of the solar ones really. It is a lot cheaper for me to have a standard roof and put lots of panels up. About half the cost/KW. Which is about 40% less than the current price I pay for power over the lifetime. So as long as I don't care about how it looks (and I don't), I'll probably stick with panels. Until the tiles get cheaper and easier to set up. They look like they are joined in series at the moment, so one going out will take a whole section down.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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