View Poll Results: Do you support execution as a penalty for treason?

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  • Yes, and I believe that the allegations of the Trump campaign's Russian collusion count as treason

    3 60.00%
  • Yes, but I don't think the allegations of the Trump campaign's Russian collusion count as treason

    0 0%
  • No, but I believe that the allegations of the Trump campaign's Russian collusion count as treason

    0 0%
  • No, and I don't think the allegations of the Trump campaign's Russian collusion count as treason

    2 40.00%
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Thread: Do you support execution as a penalty for treason?

  1. #1

    Woden's Avatar
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    Default Do you support execution as a penalty for treason?

    Treason, of course, being the legal definition (as defined in the Constitution), which boils down to aiding enemies of the United States in harming us.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...ion_3:_Treason

  2. #2
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    I do not support the death penalty under any circumstances. The primary reason is that it is in general a waste of resources (actual and potential), the secondary reason being that it makes the U.S. a laughingstock to more civilized nations.

    Addendum, as I posted before you completed the poll: I don't view Trump's collusions with the Russian government as treason on the sole basis that Russia is not officially an enemy of the U.S. While I think he fits enough requirements to diagnose dementia/senility and therefore removal, I don't think we can legally go so far as labeling him a traitor.
    Last edited by Lurk; 05-16-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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  3. #3
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    I do not support any state regulation for any reason, no matter the scenario.

    Important picture given your wishcasting:


  4. #4

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    I do not support capital punishment under any circumstances.

    As for Trump and his team, unless I've missed something, we don't know enough yet in most instances to say what might fit under the legal definition of treason and what might not.

    As for the sharing of highly classified information with Russian officials by Trump himself, since the President, in the final analysis, is responsible for the determination of what is classified and what isn't, it's not treason for him to arbitrarily decide to unclassify something in the middle of a conversation, even if doing so does potentially put intelligence assets at risk.

    Anyway, i haven't voted in the poll because I don't think there's enough information to make the choice between your third and fourth options.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
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  5. #5
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    So you people are voting for Pence now, good luck.





    Depending on country, cultural, and political circumstances, death penalty can vary in my opinion. For the USA, since, now, it is considered one of the most developed nation, and in many developed nations, especially in the EU, death penalty should not be practised in the US as a federal government. However, US has laws for each state that differs from another, which I would not consider in this answer!
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  6. #6
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Anyway, i haven't voted in the poll because I don't think there's enough information to make the choice between your third and fourth options.
    The poll also implies the childish wishcasting belief that he colluded with Russians is a fact.

  7. #7
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    I do not support any state regulation for any reason, no matter the scenario.
    Just curious: Does that include state-enforced penalties for ******* you up the *** without paying for services you've rendered? Or even if I demand payment for that service while threatening to kill you if said payment isn't instantly granted?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Just curious: Does that include state-enforced penalties for ******* you up the *** without paying you for the service you've rendered?
    Did Woden do this to you?

  9. #9
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    Did Woden do this to you?
    No, I did that to Woden. Please answer the question. If I did that to you, would you support me suffering a penalty enforced by the state?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    No, I did that to Woden. Please answer the question. If I did that to you, would you support me suffering a penalty enforced by the state?
    I think Sap would be more interested in your question.

  11. #11
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    I think Sap would be more interested in your question.
    Does this response grant me state-sponsored permission to do it?
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  12. #12
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    I do not support the death penalty under any circumstances, or maybe under almost any circumstances. It's perhaps defensible in the case of someone like Adolf Eichmann. I'm torn on the absolute extreme case such as that one. In any case, certainly to be eligible for the death penalty, I'd have to agree that you've forfeited your right to be considered human, because I don't see how it could be a just punishment for any human. The principle of justice is bound, in my opinion, by the same edict that binds medicine: "do no harm."

    Chief reasons for this are that (1) human beings are all capable of redemption, and (2) I do not believe that any government can have the legitimacy to impose such a penalty on one of its citizens.

    As for this case, I don't think that the kind of collusion that it's plausible is going to constitute treason. Sheer stupidity, and potentially illegal lapses in judgement, but probably not treasonous behavior.
    Last edited by The Burninator; 05-16-2017 at 07:39 PM.

  13. #13
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Why isn't there an option of Trump not being guilty of any of it? There certainly isn't any proof.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  14. #14
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Think the last option implies he is not guilty of treason.

  15. #15
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    But yeah, execute those who have committed treason. We can start in the order of those who have committed treason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  16. #16
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Think the last option implies he is not guilty of treason.
    Incorrect. You clearly cannot read.

  17. #17
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Think the last option implies he is not guilty of treason.
    No, it just says collusion Isn't treason, he is still claming something he has no proof of.
    Last edited by The Blazin1; 05-16-2017 at 07:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  18. #18

    Woden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Why isn't there an option of Trump not being guilty of any of it? There certainly isn't any proof.
    Every option refers to "allegations," i.e., accepts that there is a possibility that he and his campaign did nothing wrong. The 2nd and 4th options say that you think the allegations against him would not be treason even if they turn out to be true.

    The question is about whether the allegations would amount to treason, rather than whether Trump is actually guilty of the allegations, because it's a more relevant and interesting side-question.

  19. #19
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woden View Post
    The question is about whether the allegations would amount to treason
    Try telling Burn, he is the one that claims otherwise. Your wishcasting, while hilarious, is not "relevant."

  20. #20
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    No, it just says collusion Isn't treason, he is still claming something he has no proof of.
    My misreading then / my mistake -- I meant that it implies that he is innocent on the charge of treason; I didn't realize you were looking for an answer that says "he didn't collude."

  21. #21

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    I only support death penalty with Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I do not support the death penalty under any circumstances. The primary reason is that it is in general a waste of resources (actual and potential), the secondary reason being that it makes the U.S. a laughingstock to more civilized nations.
    Maybe for vast crimes against humanity. But at that point he'd (or she'd, Rok) be held in an international court for crimes against humanity.

    Realistically speaking, no. Only Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  23. #23
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Related, posted by a friend of mine, for your consumption:

    "In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies."

  24. #24
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    In private, three administration officials
    Fake news.

  25. #25
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    My misreading then / my mistake -- I meant that it implies that he is innocent on the charge of treason; I didn't realize you were looking for an answer that says "he didn't collude."
    Shouldn't that be an option? Why wouldn't it be? But I digress, if we were executing people for treason, what kind of evidence would you consider?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Related, posted by a friend of mine, for your consumption:

    "In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies."
    While believable, that's a pretty damn sad defense: The only reason there can be any confidence that he didn't leak compromising information is that he's got too short of an attention span to pay any attention to his security briefings.

    If that's the best defense of Trump that can be mustered, then he needs to be removed from office as soon as humanly possible. I really don't understand why Republicans are continuing to defend this human travesty so much, rather than pressuring him to resign or face impeachment. Hell, you'd think that they would want Pence rather than Trump.

  27. #27
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woden View Post
    While believable, that's a pretty damn sad defense: The only reason there can be any confidence that he didn't leak compromising information is that he's got too short of an attention span to pay any attention to his security briefings.

    If that's the best defense of Trump that can be mustered, then he needs to be removed from office as soon as humanly possible. I really don't understand why Republicans are continuing to defend this human travesty so much, rather than pressuring him to resign or face impeachment. Hell, you'd think that they would want Pence rather than Trump.
    Oh, I have no idea whether it's true -- but there's something to be said for the mere fact that it's so believable.

  28. #28
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woden View Post
    While believable
    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Oh, I have no idea whether it's true -- but there's something to be said for the mere fact that it's so believable.
    That is called wishcasting.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Oh, I have no idea whether it's true -- but there's something to be said for the mere fact that it's so believable.
    And the biggest reason it's so believable is that it precisely mirrors what people around Trump have been already been saying, both about his inattention to security briefings ever since he started receiving them, and just generalized comments about him over the years. It'd be perfectly within his norm.

  30. #30
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Everyone dodged my question because we all know Obama and Hillary would be the first to go.
    Didn't Truman mention something to Stalin btw? Some sort of project?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  31. #31
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Everyone dodged my question because we all know Obama and Hillary would be the first to go.
    Didn't Truman mention something to Stalin btw? Some sort of project?
    Trump mentioned something to the Russians other than the terrorist plans to attack aircrafts, so they should tighten their airport security, but they didn't take that advice?

    There is nothing wrong with mentioning stuff that aren't state secrets to both enemies and friends!
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  32. #32
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    It's becoming more than a travesty. At this stage the reality of his incompetence or otherwise is becoming secondary to the damage he is doing to the US. From over here, it is clear that he is an even more divisive president than a black one! At least the anti Obama part of the US didn't hold much sway internationally (except maybe with a few neo-**** groups). Like him or not, he is a well spoken, articulate and charming front man.

    These days, we hear something about the US on our screens daily, and it is a long litany of what he's done, said, or might be able to be charged with and now almost nothing is unbelievable. And not in a good way. I cringe on your behalf now. I've given up laughing, it's just become too awful. I can not understand why the GOP is letting it happen.

    No to death penalty, and if he's done what he's being accused of, he really, really needs to go and quickly. Even if he hasn't he needs to go and quickly.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  33. #33

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    Has anyone else noticed that although cofc loves to use the portmanteau wishcasting, he doesn't actuallly seem to know what it means? It's like he read it on his word-of-the-day calendar, but didn't actually bother to read the definition. Mere wishful thinking doesn't make a statement a wishcast, there must also be a forecast involved.

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  34. #34
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    It's becoming more than a travesty. At this stage the reality of his incompetence or otherwise is becoming secondary to the damage he is doing to the US. From over here, it is clear that he is an even more divisive president than a black one! At least the anti Obama part of the US didn't hold much sway internationally (except maybe with a few neo-**** groups). Like him or not, he is a well spoken, articulate and charming front man.

    These days, we hear something about the US on our screens daily, and it is a long litany of what he's done, said, or might be able to be charged with and now almost nothing is unbelievable. And not in a good way. I cringe on your behalf now. I've given up laughing, it's just become too awful. I can not understand why the GOP is letting it happen.

    No to death penalty, and if he's done what he's being accused of, he really, really needs to go and quickly. Even if he hasn't he needs to go and quickly.
    Typical lefty thinking, even if he has done nothing wrong, get him out. To bad no one held their own party accountable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  35. #35
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Even on the off chance he didn't collude with Russia illegally, and also if the Comey memo is somehow a fabrication or that Trump asking him to terminate the investigation is somehow not illegal, can we really argue that
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    he has done nothing wrong
    ?

    Come now.

  36. #36
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that i think all words have only one meaning?
    Are you five?

  37. #37
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Quoting someone and and then changing their words is the ultimate form of wishcasting. It's like you're casting a wish that they actually wrote the words you're putting in their post, and then responding accordingly.

    It's kind of a mix of wishcasting sprinkled with salt followed up by high-fiving yourself.
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  38. #38
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Quoting someone and and then changing their words is the ultimate form of wishcasting. It's like you're casting a wish that they actually wrote the words you're putting in their post, and then responding accordingly.

    It's kind of a mix of wishcasting sprinkled with salt followed up by high-fiving yourself.
    That is some salty wishcasting.

  39. #39
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Quoting someone and and then changing their words is the ultimate form of wishcasting.
    Nah that is kind of plagiarism. the falsifying one!

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  40. #40
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Typical lefty thinking, even if he has done nothing wrong, get him out. To bad no one held their own party accountable.
    Even if he has done nothing illegal or amounting to treason, he has shown complete incompetence and appalling judgement. If Hillary had made one tenth of his mistakes (or made 1/10th of his idiot tweets) she would have been impeached months ago. And you know it!! I am gobsmacked that you are happy to trash the reputation of your country on a simple matter of not being to be prepared to admit you were wrong. Because, dude, you really, really, were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Quoting someone and and then changing their words is the ultimate form of wishcasting. It's like you're casting a wish that they actually wrote the words you're putting in their post, and then responding accordingly.

    It's kind of a mix of wishcasting sprinkled with salt followed up by high-fiving yourself.
    Indeed.
    (see cofc, without changing his words, it's almost like an adult comment).
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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