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Thread: The Embarrassing Joke of New Tribes

  1. #1

    Default The Embarrassing Joke of New Tribes

    Just saw the forum post from COM about the outcome of the polls. It really feels like the decision makers in Munich got a cheesy presentation from a corporate consultant, "How to Engage Your Stakeholders and Win Their Support!"

    I peeked in on 4/1 to see if it was worth coming back to the game. Saw the blog post about new tribes -- they don't want to admit that was the joke. It was. Now they are either 1)reeling from the "surprising feedback" on the new tribes idea (which KEEN will never even consider so no one get your hopes up) OR 2)realizing they are insanely out of touch with their player base.

    Hire a #1 robber that speaks fluent American English and this company will change forever. This is a culture problem. Not a German culture problem -- but a gamer nerd culture problem.

    Hope everyone playing is enjoying it, but this game hasn't gotten back to fun status for me.

  2. #2

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    who says its a joke...... HQ wont let us say which of the 7 posts was a joke but don't be to sure about what KEEN will or will not consider........ Some times big changes are needed.

    And if I say any more im pretty sure I will be out a job. BTW that chart was also posted on this domain

  3. #3

    Scarecrow's Avatar
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    1. People have been pushing for better tablet and mobile interaction for a long while and the implementation of this makes sense monetarily. Why would this be a joke?
    2. is currently being talked about on these forums and so is obviously true
    3. had the poll with the results being positive. This is true.
    4. I would wish to believe that TG wants to expand its player base. Players are how it earns income after all... So, why would this be a joke?
    5. This isn't new to the game but more of an announcement. Why would this be a joke?
    6. Has been talked about for a long time and has been consistently shot down in the past.

    Now, you've purposefully bolded there were 7 posts and that the 'joke' is in one of them. So, unless this is meant to be the joke (what?) then process of elimination leaves 6 to be the one which will not be implemented...

    The other alternative is that the 'joke' is that 'there is no joke' but this only serves to disgruntle the current player base and would be a poor marketing stunt...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  4. #4

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    The thing is, troop forwarding and defense point credit were also consistently shot down in the past. If five years ago you'd told me I'd one day be starting with level 10 fields, and I'd be able to transfer my spawn raid force to my hammer village I wouldn't have believed you.
    Sure, new tribes are the number one item in the Not a New Idea Thread, but in the ten years since that thread was created, nearly 40% of those ideas actually have been tried out either in Legends or Kingdoms.
    I do think new tribes were supposed to be the joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone at HQ said, "Wait, why is that still a joke? Let's see if we can do it."
    Last edited by Tineren; 04-18-2017 at 04:57 AM.

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  5. #5
    Villager BlackBlade's Avatar
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    Scarecrow, I've considered the post about there joke being a joke and I definitely agree that if that is the case it would disgruntle players even more. As it is I wasn't pleased about announcing on April 1 to begin with, and I'm sure others felt the same. The few who remain in Travian seem to skew to the hardcore player types and so joking about something we hold dear is not a good idea.

    Tineren, what you said reminds me of economics i.e the short run is fixed, while the long term is uncertain. The fact that Travian has tried new things shows anything is possible at some point. It just takes the right confluence of events.

    Elrobertlee, while he may be the founder of Travian Games he is hardly the only person making decisions. In fact since the company has over 200 employees for its various properties I suspect he has a bit more on his plate then deciding what features go into Legends. Of course the level of control he exerts is a quesiton of management style but we can only guess from the outside. So it is unfair to use his historical comments as set in stone, especially when anything is realistically possible long term.

    Travian Games isn't perfect, and they have let down players before. But they have done other things well too. It is okay to be critical to help keep them accountable to players. We are their bread and butter after all. You just have to keep in mind practical limitations like time, money, technology and people.

    I don't know the makeup of Travian Games employees but I would assume their is bias towards German and/or European workers. Simply due to be being based in Germany. As far as I know they don't have any global offices, though the CMs and Mods would probably be local in most cases. (Mods not being employees technically if I understand things correctly) Would this have an impact on game development? To some extent but it isn't really something that can be measured objectively. I suspect there is research on cultural differences but how that would impact game development would be new ground.

    I've seen ancedots that they don't have employees who have run top accounts / employees being limited in what they can do within the games the company runs. This is probably the most valuable point that was brought up. It is important to have perspectives of all different kinds of players in the development process and whether by rules or chance if employees skew towards average or below accounts that would impact developments in favor of those types of players. This is something that should be addressed, how exactly I don't know. It wouldn't be good business to hire people soley for this purpose and finding quality individuals within the community to contribute on a volunteer basis would be difficult.

  6. #6

    Scarecrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    The thing is, troop forwarding and defense point credit were also consistently shot down in the past. If five years ago you'd told me I'd one day be starting with level 10 fields, and I'd be able to transfer my spawn raid force to my hammer village I wouldn't have believed you.
    Sure, new tribes are the number one item in the Not a New Idea Thread, but in the ten years since that thread was created, nearly 40% of those ideas actually have been tried out either in Legends or Kingdoms.
    I do think new tribes were supposed to be the joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone at HQ said, "Wait, why is that still a joke? Let's see if we can do it."
    Looking at the context it is all presented in, it would appear to be the most likely to be the joke hence my initial post.
    I am more than happy to be wrong in this particular instance if indeed I am incorrect.

    I also highly agree with your closing statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  7. #7

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    Put it this way. I found the "joke" very unfunny and know there would be many many disgruntled players, forum rants about it and tons of complaints about how it was a poor marketing stunt. can that be any clearer with out saying it directly???

    I raised all this repeatedly to HQ via the weekly feedback as did many other CMs from around the world. Unfortunately the Game Center decided that rather than revel the "joke" and say whoops we made a mess of that, they are pushing ahead with the planned announcements trickle fed over the next few months.

    All I can do is apoligise to you and say there will be many changes in the next 6 months. Some will be popular and some less so. We will no doubt have opinion polls and discussion threads for each of the changes etc so please do give your feedback and I will pass it to HQ.

  8. #8

    Scarecrow's Avatar
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    I understand your hands are tied as I would like to imagine the rest of the forum population does. Your actions show as much. I do appreciate your lessening of any potential impact/ramification given our particular forum culture we exhibit on .us.

    So as to be not all gloom and doom, one positive I would like to note is that TG HQ is at least appearing to listen to and value the forum community more highly by issuing polls in the first place and thereby giving us some greater say in the direction the game takes compared to mediums such as the Ideas Thread which always seemed one way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  9. #9

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    So, I finally get the joke.
    Post #7 is the April Fools fake.

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  10. #10

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    I can neither confirm or deny that fact....
    CM M.Hudson
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  11. #11

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    So now that we know (unconfirmed, but it fits all the data) we are getting new tribes, I want to know the the "builder" Egyptians are getting the Roman dual build ability, or if they have some other feature that makes them builders.

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  12. #12
    Villager Muchacho NL's Avatar
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    I find the entitlement of 'disgruntled' players a bit disturbing to be honest...
    A game that is presented to you for free... where you can decide to put some money in for premium feats, but in essence still free, and we act like TG messes with our property.

    If you read the last bit of post #6, they say that it'll only be used on the Birthday Special server... a server that has NO influence on your game if you decide not to play that server.
    So how can we possibly consider this as 'chasing away players', since you have the option to just not play that server?
    You won't have to wait any longer for a new server, since (if I recall correctly) the regular server schedule is NOT including the Birthday special... so you literally have NOTHING to do with that change if you just want to enjoy the current Travian: Legends game...
    So you can just simply ignore it, let the data speak for itself, don't throw a fit.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muchacho NL View Post
    I find the entitlement of 'disgruntled' players a bit disturbing to be honest...
    A game that is presented to you for free... where you can decide to put some money in for premium feats, but in essence still free, and we act like TG messes with our property.

    If you read the last bit of post #6, they say that it'll only be used on the Birthday Special server... a server that has NO influence on your game if you decide not to play that server.
    So how can we possibly consider this as 'chasing away players', since you have the option to just not play that server?
    You won't have to wait any longer for a new server, since (if I recall correctly) the regular server schedule is NOT including the Birthday special... so you literally have NOTHING to do with that change if you just want to enjoy the current Travian: Legends game...
    So you can just simply ignore it, let the data speak for itself, don't throw a fit.
    We can always speak with our feet and retire like so many others have. TG is no longer unique; there are many other similar titles out there. Any disgruntlement is because there is some feeling of attachment to the game (but more often than not, to the people playing it) and an interest to keep some level of player engagement.

    I would appreciate if you didn't dismiss any concerns of the veteran population out of hand especially given that your identity on this forum has been tied to the game itself (in the same way mine was in the past and the same way m.hudson's is now).

    As it is, you have completely missed what we were arguing against. The idea for additional tribes has been circulated for at least 8 years (since I first came to the game). I would hazard to guess it's been asked about since the inception of the game. Wouldn't you be upset if someone joked about implementing or not implementing something that has been consistently requested for >= 8 years and has since subsequently refused to give a straight answer on the topic? The anger isn't that there might be new tribes but rather the carrot was dangled in front of the eyes with no way of knowing whether we will get said carrot with an indiscriminate time period for any potential reveal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    So, I finally get the joke.
    Post #7 is the April Fools fake.
    I did note this possibility hoping for it to be the case. At least there appears to be a more positive identification now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  14. #14

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    Scarecrow talking of carrots....

    I like carrots especially when there are more than 3 different varieties but they tend to need to mature and grow before picking the first crop.


    More on topic..... There should be a balance between trying new things and also responding to some of the wishs of the global community. I think it has been recognized that the "joke" left a bitter taste and that there needs to be more of a 2 way communication in future. I think most users here would agree that the polls is a good start but that more needs to be done to make the remaining steps from the "joke" more transparent
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    Villager Muchacho NL's Avatar
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    Scarecrow, my identity is not tied to the game itself, this is my personal account and my personal opinion.
    The opinion of another veteran player, albeit not on this domain particularly.

    However, I am still very entitled to express my personal opinion like this, from this account, as I see fit.
    Just as much as you are entitled to disagree with me.

    Back to the point, your response underlines my concerns about players (especially veterans) dealing only in extremes, and often fail to read context.
    I'm not dismissing anything, I just think it's too much extremes: it's either black or white, no shade of gray.

    Why would you stop playing a game entirely because of ill-chosen communication about a feature you've asked for and maybe finally get, albeit on just a special server (for starters)?
    Is it the maybe part that's bothering us so much, or the fact that it has taken them 8 years to implement it?

    Maybe they only just finished the proper balance, coding, artwork and research? Maybe they've been working on it for years now?
    You don't know, but you just assume, and that's what's bothering me with the typical (forum) complaints.

    Maybe the sense of humor is a little off-balance, but that's maybe a cultural thing: in some countries they couldn't care less about the joke.
    On the .NL domain they were pissed off to find out that only one of the posts was a joke: they assumed all were jokes, because they like the game as it currently is... even the birthday special is too different for their taste.
    But then again: maybe TG just wanted to trigger people to talk about Travian: Legends again? Have us gossip and get excited about the game again.

    But somehow it always backfires: we rather choose to attack TG on their lack of understanding every single culture in the world, while all they are doing is trying to be more engaged.
    Last edited by Muchacho NL; 04-19-2017 at 11:13 PM.

  16. #16

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    TG has been and continues to be incredibly tone deaf when it comes to listening to their customers. TG wants our money, TG needs to please us. It is not our job to please them.
    Note:Any posts made by this poster should always be construed in the most innocent angelic way possible. The poster is not responsible for where your depraved minds go, if you have a depraved mind.

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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by CM M.Hudson View Post
    Scarecrow talking of carrots....

    I like carrots especially when there are more than 3 different varieties but they tend to need to mature and grow before picking the first crop.


    More on topic..... There should be a balance between trying new things and also responding to some of the wishs of the global community. I think it has been recognized that the "joke" left a bitter taste and that there needs to be more of a 2 way communication in future. I think most users here would agree that the polls is a good start but that more needs to be done to make the remaining steps from the "joke" more transparent
    How you make everything sound, it seems to be true that #7 is the fake and there will indeed be 5 tribes for the birthday server.

    But yes as everyone stated this whole situation is pretty lame.

  18. #18

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    To be fair, the joke is decent. Announce something no one expects to happen on a day when everyone expects a lie, but then surprise! it's true. But the timing is horrible. April second should have started a flood of information on the new tribes. We should have seen unit pictures, unit stats, special tribe abilities, etc. A couple new announcements/blog posts every week. Maintaining the joke for three weeks is lame.

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  19. #19

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    I have to agree with Tineren, I think it was a funny April fools idea. Even making the fake post the one that there's fake news could've been funny. But I HATE the fact that we don't know 100% yet though. We should've found out April 2nd what the joke was and there should be a time table for when the new information is coming out.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carni View Post
    I have to agree with Tineren, I think it was a funny April fools idea. Even making the fake post the one that there's fake news could've been funny. But I HATE the fact that we don't know 100% yet though. We should've found out April 2nd what the joke was and there should be a time table for when the new information is coming out.
    I agree with everything that you have said and it was raised to the game center by myself and others the we need to clearly communicate otherwise we will struggle to maintain the good community mood/trust that had gradually been building. Unfortunately we have not been permitted to share which of the 7 posts were fake. There is a set timetable to revel the 6 real items but im not permitted to share that either.
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  21. #21
    Villager BlackBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CM M.Hudson View Post
    I agree with everything that you have said and it was raised to the game center by myself and others the we need to clearly communicate otherwise we will struggle to maintain the good community mood/trust that had gradually been building. Unfortunately we have not been permitted to share which of the 7 posts were fake. There is a set timetable to revel the 6 real items but im not permitted to share that either.
    I'm glad things are being communicated to HQ but it is disappointing things don't seem to be heard. I would guess this current situation is in part the result of the new marketing director who took over in December. Though now TG is in a marketing partnership with ad2games, (the deal appears to have been finalized this month) so I wonder if the new partnership will improve things.

  22. #22

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    Its more to do with the communications manager that started last month

    There are new plans being made to improve communication from HQ but we have to give her some time to get processes in place.
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  23. #23
    Customer Service Representative CM The Moment You Know's Avatar
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    Greetings,

    I know I don't post a whole lot anymore. Unlike my time as a player on the US domain where I'd have a great time playing back and forth with allies and enemies in the Embassies, these days my time is spent working with our teams to keep the game running as fairly and smoothly as possible. But I have been keeping an eye on this and other threads regarding the April 1st announcement.

    What MHudson has been saying is quite accurate. Many Community leaders have waved flags before and after to try to get some more immediate resolution to the open questions. I'm not what I'd call a fan of the process as it has gone on. Yet, what I can ask, is to please be patient and let the process play out for now. I think as a group you'll find that the actual results are implemented much better than the process announcing them.

    Best,
    ~f

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  24. #24

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    1) Nothing happens at TG in Munich without KEEN's approval. He owns the company privately in partnership with his brother and one other person, but KEEN oversees game development while the others oversee the business operations side of things. So yes, KEEN gets his way every time.

    2) I imagine originally the joke was new tribes; however, they realized the mistake they had made and KEEN is now being forced to pretend it was the plan all along.

    3) I still think the problem is they don't have American pro-level raiders working for them. They don't have a SINGLE American developer.

  25. #25

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    Lars Janssen manages and over sees the company as the Managing Director. While Keen is heavily involved in Travian:Legends the Game Director (Brian) oversees game development.

    The Game Center wont let me post what really happened with those posts but you are a long way from the right answer. A number of people in this thread already deduced the correct answer. There was no change of plan.

    The company has a number of Americans working for it including the Director of New Games (Jess)
    CM M.Hudson
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  26. #26

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    Meh, you may not like my methods -- but I'll pull teeth when I have to. We wouldn't have this info without it.

    Also--New Games is not Travian... lol You proved my point. In any event, I've paid hundreds of dollars into this game over the years; I have a right to feel entitled. Peace out Travian.

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