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  1. #41
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    I agree with that (c)hick named Rok that we should execute all leftists.

  2. #42
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    17, I'm OK with 17 people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    How do you feel about the visitor logs at the WH being closed to the public now?
    Obama did not release the names of everyone who went to the White House. You of course never mentioned your care for this from January 20th 2009 to January 20th 2017. It is almost as if you are faux outraged. An impotent rage, if you will.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    So, how many are you prepared to kill then? Say the number. You are, in effect condoning the potential murder of innocents. I say murder, because that (or war crime) is what history might call it when its done by the losers. You think that will never be you, but there are several scenarios where it could. Most involving China. So, what number is good with you?
    The world could say the same about some of your people too. And sometimes it has. If we don''t remove donnie and his followers, there is no doubt that thousands of people will die because of him. And I'm not even counting those who will die if obama care goes. So, can we step in and take control of your silly country? It is for the good of you all. Many of YOUR generals agree with me.

    North Korean citizens dying?

    25 million is okay for me. But it seems expensive, so I would prefer military targets priority over civilians.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I say murder, because that (or war crime) is what history might call it when its done by the losers. You think that will never be you, but there are several scenarios where it could. Most involving China.
    So like, I don't want this to sound like chest thumping 'murica rhetoric, but how exactly do you see the US losing if China steps up against the US? Numbers? I think Germany proved that numbers don't matter if they are untrained. The only way we lose is if nuclear weapons get involved and in that scenario it's not going to be a US loss, but a world loss. They launch nukes, we launch nukes. **** hits the fan and suddenly we're in a Quinton Tarantino movie
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    North Korean citizens dying?

    25 million is okay for me. But it seems expensive, so I would prefer military targets priority over civilians.
    Wow. Just wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    So like, I don't want this to sound like chest thumping 'murica rhetoric, but how exactly do you see the US losing if China steps up against the US? Numbers? I think Germany proved that numbers don't matter if they are untrained. The only way we lose is if nuclear weapons get involved and in that scenario it's not going to be a US loss, but a world loss. They launch nukes, we launch nukes. **** hits the fan and suddenly we're in a Quinton Tarantino movie
    I'm not suggesting you will lose this one. Even with an idiot in charge, that should be almost undo-able. But look ahead. When your grandchildren are your age, they could have chinese masters (deliberate choice of words). The chinese play the long game, and they do it well. They won't go nuclear with you, because they wont have to. Particularly if you keep your $ rules credo.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    North Korean citizens dying?

    25 million is okay for me. But it seems expensive, so I would prefer military targets priority over civilians.
    And suddenly gulags seem like a less awful idea.

    Point: there are civilians even at military targets most of the time.
    Point: large explosive devices are necessarily indiscriminate.
    Point: simply being born a citizen of a country that is ruled by bad people is not a crime that makes one worthy of death.
    Point -- most important: this is the literal definition of evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I'm not suggesting you will lose this one. Even with an idiot in charge, that should be almost undo-able. But look ahead. When your grandchildren are your age, they could have chinese masters (deliberate choice of words). The chinese play the long game, and they do it well. They won't go nuclear with you, because they wont have to. Particularly if you keep your $ rules credo.
    Point: last time the US and China fought, numbers DID matter. It was a draw. See: the Korean War.
    Point: location and power projection matter. It's harder for the US to field its forces in Korea than it is for China. China would doubtless lose a global conflict with the US, but a limited Korean conflict is quite winable for them, or at least draw-able.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    I think Germany proved that numbers don't matter if they are untrained.
    Umm, Germany lost the world wars, mostly because of numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    They launch nukes, we launch nukes. **** hits the fan and suddenly we're in a Quinton Tarantino movie
    Not obvious that "they" would launch first. They're typically rational actors who know that they have a strong hand if the conflict is regional. It's the US that is led by an irrational commander in chief and with all the political motives to expand the conflict. (US wins wider conflict, while situation is more balanced if the conflict stays narrow.)

    Also, for all the rhetoric, there IS only one country that has ever used nuclear weapons in armed conflict before, and it isn't China.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    And suddenly gulags seem like a less awful idea.
    I am shocked that a leftist/communist/totalitarian wants gulags.

  9. #49
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    Wait america did lose the vietnam war, or are you people in denial?

    and there were no nuclear bombs!
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    So like, I don't want this to sound like chest thumping 'murica rhetoric, but how exactly do you see the US losing if China steps up against the US? Numbers? I think Germany proved that numbers don't matter if they are untrained. The only way we lose is if nuclear weapons get involved and in that scenario it's not going to be a US loss, but a world loss. They launch nukes, we launch nukes. **** hits the fan and suddenly we're in a Quinton Tarantino movie
    Actually, Russia proved untrained numbers succeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Wait america did lose the vietnam war, or are you people in denial?

    and there were no nuclear bombs!
    US believes we "won" the Vietnam war in a "strategic withdrawal."
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Actually, Russia proved untrained numbers succeed.
    CCCP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    US believes we "won" the Vietnam war in a "strategic withdrawal."
    That's something losers would say to their people back home, so they believe that their army people who died on the front line did achieve something.
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  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Umm, Germany lost the world wars, mostly because of numbers.

    Not obvious that "they" would launch first. They're typically rational actors who know that they have a strong hand if the conflict is regional. It's the US that is led by an irrational commander in chief and with all the political motives to expand the conflict. (US wins wider conflict, while situation is more balanced if the conflict stays narrow.)

    Also, for all the rhetoric, there IS only one country that has ever used nuclear weapons in armed conflict before, and it isn't China.
    I guess we'll just ignore the fact that Germany had conquered almost the entirety of Europe before they turned on Russia and the U.S. joined the war? They were literally dominating everyone before then.

    I never said it was obvious or that they would do it first. It was a hypothetical to question which scenario she was saying we'd lose to China.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Actually, Russia proved untrained numbers succeed.
    Actually, Russia proved the scorched earth tactic works when the other side is unwilling to accept that their current approach isn't working.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    And suddenly gulags seem like a less awful idea.

    Point: there are civilians even at military targets most of the time.
    Point: large explosive devices are necessarily indiscriminate.
    Point: simply being born a citizen of a country that is ruled by bad people is not a crime that makes one worthy of death.
    Point -- most important: this is the literal definition of evil.
    Yes I'm aware civilians are at military sites, however there are less there than residential areas.

    It is the cost of war.

    Value of North Korean lives is less than South Korean or Japanese lives.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Yes I'm aware civilians are at military sites, however there are less there than residential areas.

    It is the cost of war.

    Value of North Korean lives is less than South Korean or Japanese lives.
    There are other options.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    There are other options.
    Like what exactly?

    North Korea needs to get cleaned up and the two Koreas need to reunite and thrive.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Value of North Korean lives is less than South Korean or Japanese lives.
    In one sentence you justify everything ISIS has done. Stop it.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    I guess we'll just ignore the fact that Germany had conquered almost the entirety of Europe before they turned on Russia and the U.S. joined the war? They were literally dominating everyone before then.
    Which world war are you talking? In WWI, Germany didn't have the industry to supply armies on both the continent and its colonies, so France and England happily gobbled up its colonial possessions. The Ottoman and Russia both collapsed and were removed. France/Britain/Italy vs Austria/Hungary/Germany was a stalemate -- and the failure of the last ditch effort of German high command to take Paris before a single American soldier could get to Europe failed spectacularly. Germany's quality over quantity approach ensured that it could not overwhelm the British or French defenders.

    If you're talking WWII, the early success of Germany's armies had little to do with relative quality of forces -- indeed, it's believed that the Poles and Dutch had the best trained, most motivated armies.

    But they were tiny and outnumbered and unsupported.

    The early successes of the Germans in that war was due to lack of preparedness of the enemies of Germany and the unexpected tactics they used. Capital rushing with tanks was a new tactic. The French didn't figure out how to stop that in time. Dunkirk and Germany's loss in the Battle of Britain show that, in fact, British air power was on par with German.

    Anyway, the main point of my contention was that Germany eventually lost both world wars and did so because it was outnumbered despite possibly having a qualitative edge. Numbers do matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    Actually, Russia proved the scorched earth tactic works when the other side is unwilling to accept that their current approach isn't working.
    I don't really think that the Germans could have played it differently and won as a result. Even if they'd bypassed Stalingrad and taken Moscow instead, it was clear that Stalin was willing to burn Moscow. The Russians did it against Napoleon once before. Any choices the Germans were going to make in Russia would only prolong the inevitable.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  19. #59
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    In one sentence you justify everything ISIS has done. Stop it.
    You think ISIS is justified, explains a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    You think ISIS is justified, explains a lot.
    That was quite odd of her. She if flat out saying ISIS is justified now, instead of just apologizing for muslim terrorists, she is now promoting them.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    You think ISIS is justified, explains a lot.
    He justified. I pointed it out. But good try kiddies.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I pointed it out.
    You pointed out that ISIS is justified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Value of North Korean lives is less than South Korean or Japanese lives.
    Instead of ******'s racism, we get people classed on their country's idealism.

    Yes people do the same mistakes over and over again, but they change the names of stuff to make it more acceptable to the general public!
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  24. #64
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    She slips farther into a dementia like state with every post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Instead of ******'s racism, we get people classed on their country's idealism.

    Yes people do the same mistakes over and over again, but they change the names of stuff to make it more acceptable to the general public!
    If they are threatening to attack Japan and South Korea they I support a preemptive strike on North Korean military sites.

    I am okay with the death of civilians if it is to protect South Korean and Japanese civilians.

  26. #66
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    America is sending warships to threatens N.korea, of course they would threatens back!

    Unless if you believe that communists should be threatened, and they should not threaten their enemies back?

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  27. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    America is sending warships to threatens N.korea, of course they would threatens back!

    Unless if you believe that communists should be threatened, and they should not threaten their enemies back?

    They threatened first. Repeatedly.

    Edit- Enjoy their video also.

    http://www.sfgate.com/world/article/...witter-desktop
    Last edited by Foley; 04-20-2017 at 04:05 AM.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    They threatened first. Repeatedly.

    Edit- Enjoy their video also.

    http://www.sfgate.com/world/article/...witter-desktop
    Actually, just like america, they show off their prowess (or their lack of) in the military field. They threaten to retaliate, so does the US. But they don't have attack weapons sitting of your shores. They are run by a dipstick, and now, so are you. The main difference is yours hasn't been in power long enough to corrupt an entire generation.

    Syria, Afghanistan and N. Korea. Not once during his terms did I worry about Obama starting WWIII. Did you? Do you all now see why the entire world has a vested interest in who controls your military?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  29. #69
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    I never worried about Obama starting a war, I worried about him selling us out, opening the country up to more terrorist attacks, and running our country into the ground wgile dividing the citizens. All of which he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Wait america did lose the vietnam war, or are you people in denial?

    and there were no nuclear bombs!
    Vietnam technically wasn't a war, we haven't been in a 'war' since the 2nd world war. That said, it was a failure of our COIN process. Also it depends on what you mean by loss, our strategic objective was to secure our overseas supply of rubber, which we did by prolonging the war long enough to get the Liberian plantations up and running at full efficiency. The cost was 58k versus 1M.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    US believes we "won" the Vietnam war in a "strategic withdrawal."
    Well that's what we told the public. Peace with honor and all that bull.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    I guess we'll just ignore the fact that Germany had conquered almost the entirety of Europe before they turned on Russia and the U.S. joined the war? They were literally dominating everyone before then.

    I never said it was obvious or that they would do it first. It was a hypothetical to question which scenario she was saying we'd lose to China.



    Actually, Russia proved the scorched earth tactic works when the other side is unwilling to accept that their current approach isn't working.
    Prior to Poland the allies had a larger mainland military force than Germany. The problem was a lack of will to committ. Russia didn't really use much scorched earth, their problem was bad roads that turned to mud and a different rail gauge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Yes I'm aware civilians are at military sites, however there are less there than residential areas.

    It is the cost of war.

    Value of North Korean lives is less than South Korean or Japanese lives.
    OK... except Seoul is within artillery range of the North Korean border, and it is well known that the DPRK has piles of artillery literally sitting in caves ready to roll out and hit Seoul within 10 minutes. The Seoul metro area is the 16th largest city on earth with a population of 25 million. With a 10% kill rate and 80% refugee rate you're looking at 2.5 million dead and 20 million IDP's (Internally displaced persons, aka refugees).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Which world war are you talking? In WWI, Germany didn't have the industry to supply armies on both the continent and its colonies, so France and England happily gobbled up its colonial possessions. The Ottoman and Russia both collapsed and were removed. France/Britain/Italy vs Austria/Hungary/Germany was a stalemate -- and the failure of the last ditch effort of German high command to take Paris before a single American soldier could get to Europe failed spectacularly. Germany's quality over quantity approach ensured that it could not overwhelm the British or French defenders.

    If you're talking WWII, the early success of Germany's armies had little to do with relative quality of forces -- indeed, it's believed that the Poles and Dutch had the best trained, most motivated armies.

    But they were tiny and outnumbered and unsupported.

    The early successes of the Germans in that war was due to lack of preparedness of the enemies of Germany and the unexpected tactics they used. Capital rushing with tanks was a new tactic. The French didn't figure out how to stop that in time. Dunkirk and Germany's loss in the Battle of Britain show that, in fact, British air power was on par with German.

    Anyway, the main point of my contention was that Germany eventually lost both world wars and did so because it was outnumbered despite possibly having a qualitative edge. Numbers do matter.

    I don't really think that the Germans could have played it differently and won as a result. Even if they'd bypassed Stalingrad and taken Moscow instead, it was clear that Stalin was willing to burn Moscow. The Russians did it against Napoleon once before. Any choices the Germans were going to make in Russia would only prolong the inevitable.
    No. If Germany took Moscow things would have been radically different. Moscow was the central rail hub of Russia, taking it would have cut off allied resupply (lend-lease) via achanglhesk and murmansk, cut the supplies to Leningrad, and helped to isolate Stalingrad.

    Germany lost because of a variety of reasons. Lack of Industrial streamlining is a big part of the difference between Russia and Germany, Russia dropped the number of machinists required to create a T-34 by 2/3rds during the course of the war, shifting from skilled labor to unskilled labor allowing those machinists to make other weapons, like Il-2 and other things. They also took the wrong position towards occupied territory, failing to play up on the separatist desires of Ukraine and the Baltic states. They also split their forces at improper times, Stalingrad should have been a pinning action while the main thrust continued to Baku. The also failed to develop a long range strategic bomber to put pressure on the factories of the Urals.

    The American entry into the war wasn't worth much. Due to logistics we never had the capacity to truly deploy a mass of arms onto the continent, and our armaments were subpar to German equipment. We also made numerous strategic blunders, like failing to continue to move up the Italian peninsula with our naval transport capacity in the area, basically forgetting that aspect entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
    The rep system should be abolished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I never worried about Obama starting a war, I worried about him selling us out, opening the country up to more terrorist attacks, and running our country into the ground wgile dividing the citizens. All of which he did.
    In 8 years? Even so, you were worried about a few of you being nasty to each other (which wasn't his fault as it would be hard for him not to be black), having a very small number be killed by people of a different persuasion than usual, and not sounding like such a bully vs millions of you being permanently dead, and most of the rest being severely disrupted. What a choice for you!
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    In 8 years? Even so, you were worried about a few of you being nasty to each other (which wasn't his fault as it would be hard for him not to be black), having a very small number be killed by people of a different persuasion than usual, and not sounding like such a bully vs millions of you being permanently dead, and most of the rest being severely disrupted. What a choice for you!
    This is why I love Conservatives, they are a text book example of cognitive dissonance.

    Selling us out, like starting a war in Iraq and giving no-bid contracts to Cheney's company Halliburton, or like how Exxon just applied for an exemption to the Russian sanctions?
    Terrorist attacks, like how more Americans were killed by terrorism under Bush than under Obama?
    running our country into the ground, you know like this:
    DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE
    1/20/01: 10,587 (close of Friday, Jan. 19, 2001)
    1/20/09: 8,281 (close of Friday, Jan. 16, 2009)

    UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
    1/20/01: 4.2% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, January 2001)
    1/20/09: 7.2% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, December 2008)

    FEDERAL BUDGET
    1/20/01: $236.2 billion surplus (2000, Congressional Budget Office)
    1/20/09: $1.2 trillion deficient (projected figure for 2009, Congressional Budget Office)

    CONSUMER CONFIDENCE (1985=100)
    1/20/01: 115.7 (Conference Board, January 2001)
    1/20/09: 38.0, which is an all-time low (Conference Board, December 2008)

    FAMILIES LIVING IN POVERTY
    1/20/01: 6.4 million (Census numbers for 2000)
    1/20/09: 7.6 million (Census numbers for 2007 -- most recent numbers available)

    AMERICANS WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE
    1/20/01: 39.8 million (Census numbers for 2000)
    1/20/09: 45.7 million (Census numbers for 2007 -- most recent available)

    SATISFIED WITH THE NATION'S DIRECTION
    1/20/01: 55% (1/01 Pew Research Center Survey)
    1/20/09: 20% (1/09 Pew Research Center Survey)

    APPROVAL RATING OF THE OUTGOING PRESIDENT
    1/20/01: 66% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
    1/20/09: 27% (1/09 NBC/WSJ poll)

    versus
    DJIA of 19732.40
    U-3 Unemployment of 4.8% (BLS)
    Deficit 137B$ (Dec 1016 CBO official)
    Consumer Confidence 113.7 as of close of December (conferance board, via CNBC)
    Poverty 12.1 million (Census)
    Unisured 29.0 million (Census)
    Satisfied with nations direction 28% (Pew 1/9/17)
    Approval of Obama 55% (Pew jan 4-9 2017)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
    The rep system should be abolished.

  33. #73
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Would you look at how much better America was before Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  34. #74
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Would you look at how much better America was before Obama.
    nah!

    Bush was the bad for destroying america, while looking stupid!

    Obama was the ugly for keeping that going faster, while looking like he is not doing anything wrong!
    http://static.pokemoninfinity.com/im..._forum_sig.png

    trooper? recruit an army and get two recruits from me for your army...

    teacher?
    first five would receive 50 extra coins don't miss the chance...

  35. #75
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    This is why I love Democrats (like myself), they are a text book example of cognitive dissonance.
    Fixed.

    Imagine coming into the presidency at the bottom, and leaving with worse stats. For instance lower wages and more poverty a swell as the fourth lowest economic growth during a presidency.

  36. #76
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Thankyou for proving the the right doesn't know how to read yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
    The rep system should be abolished.

  37. #77
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    Thankyou for proving the the left (for example, me) doesn't know how to read yet again.
    You're welcome.

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