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Thread: Sanctuary Zones

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    point out the specific statute that requires local officials to detain and deport all unlawful residents.
    Why? The discussion is illegals who have committed additional crimes.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    No, my argument is what the laws actually say. Your argument is that they are whatever you think they should be.
    My argument was that there is no statute requiring state and local law enforcement to detain and deport illegal immigrants. You deny this, but have thus far failed to produce the statute that you claim exists.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    My argument was that there is no statute requiring state and local law enforcement to detain and deport illegal immigrants. You deny this, but have thus far failed to produce the statute that you claim exists.
    I never said that they had to detain and deport, so you're arguing against something that I never said.

    I said that it's a violation of Federal Law for them to not report, which it is.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    My argument was that there is no statute requiring state and local law enforcement to detain and deport illegal immigrants.
    That is not the topic of the thread, you silly little leftist. The discussion is illegals who have committed additional crimes.

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    Alright, then:

    Which cities that knowingly hold illegal immigrants in detention do not report them to ICE?

    The sanctuary cities I am familiar with have a policy of not asking for or collecting info on immigration status and thus do not violate that statute. (This includes NYC, Newark, and my hometown.) You will have to point me to the specific cities that are collecting immigration info then not sharing it.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Which cities that knowingly hold illegal immigrants in detention do not report them to ICE?

    The sanctuary cities I am familiar with
    All of the sanctuary cities. They usually "forget," or tell them right after they release them.

    What you are "familiar with" is not important.

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    So your immigration people can detain people who entered legally if their VISA expired and their period of stay ended. but you can not catch illegals.

    Who wrote your immigration law?
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Which cities that knowingly hold illegal immigrants in detention do not report them to ICE?
    It doesn't even require them to have them in detention. When a LEO pulls you over for a moving violation, you are "in custody". That's not the same as being "in detention". If a police officer pulls over an illegal for speeding, and the illegal can provide no documentation that he is here legally (no driver's license, SSN, etc...) at that time there is enough evidence for any LEO to believe that person could be an illegal. At that moment, he/she under federal law is required to report that person to ICE. So yes, the LEO in this hypothetical is committing a felony, and so are the local governments that encourage/enable that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    It doesn't even require them to have them in detention. When a LEO pulls you over for a moving violation, you are "in custody". That's not the same as being "in detention". If a police officer pulls over an illegal for speeding, and the illegal can provide no documentation that he is here legally (no driver's license, SSN, etc...) at that time there is enough evidence for any LEO to believe that person could be an illegal. At that moment, he/she under federal law is required to report that person to ICE. So yes, the LEO in this hypothetical is committing a felony, and so are the local governments that encourage/enable that.
    That's ridiculous from both a practical and English standpoint. For one thing, if you do a Google on what a sanctuary city even is, you'll find that it's loosely a city that "doesn't respect ICE detainer requests." That implies that the city DID share immigration info with ICE due to it having received a detainer request to disregard. So you're not even griping about "sanctuary cities." You're actually griping about cities.

    To say why your interpretation of the statute is otherwise ridiculous is to just realize why your gripe is ridiculous in general. Cops can't report literally everyone who does not have US ID, nor are they required to do so. If they pull someone over who presents valid international ID, they are by no means required to either assume that the person is illegal and report them, or to ask if the person is legal. Furthermore, while it may be advisable to carry documentation proving legal residency in the US at all times, it has been estimated that less than a quarter of Americans do this.

    If you're saying "whenever it isn't blindingly obvious that a person IS a US citizen, a police officer is required to report this to ICE," you're misinterpreting the statute. You're literally suggesting that you're a civil libertarian in one post, then suggesting in the next that anyone who doesn't show their papers must to be reported to the authorities! Sounds like you think the federal statute actually requires significant changes to current police procedures in most cities.

    EDIT: anyway, you argue well, although I disagree with you interpretation of statute and your position. I'd +10 you before I go to bed, but I cannot because the feature is disabled . Thank you for clarifying your position.
    Last edited by The Burninator; 03-31-2017 at 03:52 AM.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenWolfFangs View Post
    Basically on sanctuary cities, counties, ect.
    I'm all for it, I think sancturary zones are a great idea. The idea began with the British, then groups like the quakers, Scots-Irish, French, Germans, Italians and Chinese, deporting all those people could be a challenge and then there's the case of Donald Drumpft, an orange anchor baby born to a family of illegals.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    Those doing the bad stuff would include being here illegally. I don't care if they are otherwise model citizens. We have laws and legal ways to enter our country. Do it that way or pay the price.
    It's illegal, therefore it's bad, therefore it should be illegal.

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    Just some deportation info, Obama was good at it, and liberals and co. had no problem with that

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Deportations from the United States increased by more than 60 percent from 2003 to 2008, with Mexicans accounting for nearly two-thirds of those deported. [60] Under the Obama administration, deportations have increased to record levels beyond the level reached by the George W. Bush administration with a projected 400,000 deportations in 2010, 10 percent above the deportation rate of 2008 and 25 percent above 2007. [61] Fiscal year 2011 saw 396,906 deportations, the largest number in the history of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement; of those, about 55% had been convicted of crimes or misdemeanors, including: [62]

    By the end of 2012, as many people had been deported during the first four years of the Obama presidency as were deported during the eight-year presidency of George W. Bush; [63] the number of deportations under Obama totalled 2.5 million by the end of 2015. [64]
    Seems like many criminal illegals had been deported! which should be the case!
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    liberals and co. had no problem with that
    Yes,

    they

    did.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  14. #54
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    Comparable with Trump that is totally nothing!

    They are desperately trying to fight him weather he is right or wrong!

    and then they are blaming him of dividing and destroying the country.

    I don't know who lost more sanity in the western world anymore!
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    Your original claim was that liberals didn't protest Obama for deporting people. In fact, they did. Your claim was false.

    Your NEW claim is that liberals didn't protest Obama as much as Trump.

    A) citation needed -- Trump is protested by a wider class of individuals beyond "liberals." Let's call this class "people." Since there are more people than there are liberals, it stands to reason that the protests are bigger.
    B) why would that be weird even if it were true? On a scale of 1 to Caligula, Obama may have been like a 5, but Trump is like an 8. Obviously you protest Obama, but Trump is so iniquitous, so... lacking in votes, that it's difficult to accept his "administration" as legitimate.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  16. #56

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    I would also like to add something from my Christian coworkers about Mexican immigrants.

    God chose for them to be born there. So it's in His plan for them to live there. I would be disobeying God if I asked them to stay here. Not only that, but it can't be that bad there if God found it okay to have them be born there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
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    I'm not very bright.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse-Keyboard View Post
    It's illegal, therefore it's bad, therefore it should be illegal.
    There are ways to change the laws on a federal level.

    Does a state have the power to ban abortion, or are federal laws only important when you agree with them?

  18. #58
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    Can we all just agree that illegal immigration is illegal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    There are ways to change the laws on a federal level.

    Does a state have the power to ban abortion, or are federal laws only important when you agree with them?
    All states can make their own laws, and the federal government can make laws for all of them.

    But what happens if the laws are opposite, who keeps the law in that state?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Can we all just agree that illegal immigration is illegal?
    Some people don't believe in nations and borders. So not ALL people would agree with you.
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    That is a stupid thing not to believe in, do these people believe the earth is flat and the universe revolves around the earth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  21. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    All states can make their own laws, and the federal government can make laws for all of them.

    But what happens if the laws are opposite, who keeps the law in that state?
    The 10th amendment. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    States are free to pass their own laws, but what they cannot do is override federal laws.

    For example:

    We have a national minimum wage. I believe it's $7.25. States are free to pass their own minimum wage laws, and many have. They can make their minimum wage $20.00 per hour if they want to, but they cannot make their minimum wage less than the national minimum wage.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    do these people believe the earth is flat and the universe revolves around the earth?
    No, but some people still believe in those stuff now, some saudi cleric are good at it.
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  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    That they are here illegally?

    Look, we have jurisdictional stuff that happens here all of the time between cities, counties, and states. If someone is driving on a suspended license from Ohio and is pulled over in another state like Indiana, a simple DL check will show that suspension and the officer will detain you and contact the other state in question and give them the opportunity to come and pick you up or cite you a new ticket with a court date. It happens every day. That's what extradition is. Should the Indiana cop just say "well, none of my business...let Ohio deal with it on their own dime" and let the person go?

    The bottom line to me is that if we don't have borders, we don't have a nation...and without laws, there is no freedom. That's much more important to me than a political party just wanting to open the doors up just to help them win some elections.
    This has actually happened to me personally. I was driving on a suspended license, got pulled over, was allowed to go with a ticket. I got a ticket for speeding, not for driving suspended, nor did they give two ***** about why VA suspended my license (also for speeding, as I was moving out of that hell hole of a state).

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    Federal Law requires that they are contacted when an illegal is being held in custody. The law doesn't say that they must jail them.

    I promise you that I'm the biggest civil libertarian you'll probably ever encounter, but to grant local or state governments the power to pick and choose which laws they will uphold is a can of worms that is best left closed.
    I did not say that they did not contact ICE, all I said was that they let them go because they were not promised restitution to hold them when they would otherwise release them.

    That is a legitimate reason not to do something, especially since the state is not allowed to compel the labor of another without conviction of a crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
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  24. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Just some deportation info, Obama was good at it, and liberals and co. had no problem with that



    Seems like many criminal illegals had been deported! which should be the case!
    When I worked in a restaurant, we had our lead cook (the entire kitchen staff was, and still is, undocumented) drive while intoxicated. He got pulled over, arrested, and deported. It took 6 months for him to find his way back to Charlotte and assume the same job. Many of those criminals are probably back here just as quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    since the state is not allowed to compel the labor of another without conviction of a crime.
    This is a false statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    original claim was that liberals didn't protest Obama for deporting people.
    None of those "sources" are actual, citable resources.

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