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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    You may have played on a team that didn't have to deal with such a situation either. We were lucky to e on the team we were back then bugzy. I do not know the state of anything really for the last few years.
    I've played the last few years, and I've built upon the lessons I have learned from you and others. That is why I dug into this in the first place. I respect you, and you said that players that played with you should be ashamed. That got my attention so I dug and believe I have found the blame.

    Each round, I find the same people. (I was playing "for real" because Cis told me to) In this case there are several TRU in BTDT so obviously your original post raised flags with us. You know nothing's changed as far as ethics in the last five years.

    I had two friends, one was supposed to dual but started his own account. Played with them before. (Android and Old Timer (Old Mac at this point))

    Cis came, so that brought flower, and even Morgan.

    I got a message from a dual that played yin to Erik, Stoli and my yang on birthday and that's how Thormod shows up.

    Thormod brings the new OC in, because he's dualed with him, and the new Android dual before.

    Greg shows up.

    Tell me, how does a team like that get a spai into an important position. It is not luck, it is building on the experiences of others, admitting you don't know everything, and learning and learning more.

    Anyway, bring the baggage of all the players above, and we had too many friends which is what got us into our first war with TRA. TRA was too many.

    Maybe TRA wins, we got luckier in those battles than I like to admit.

    However, of the exTRA (sorry guys ) that joined us the majority expressed an appreciation of how we run the alliance. We were completely different personality-wise (nicer) and much more organized than what they had been led to believe (and willing to share).

    Yes we were lucky to play in TRU and learn the things we did. I try to pay it forward. I know that because I was in a bad alliance s8r1. I saw good players and wanted to be like them.

    It frustrates me that people that should know better do this, and that they lead over and over, and they don't seem to learn, and the game doesn't get any more challenging...
    \

  2. #82

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    Thank you for your reply bugzy. I appreciate the compliments. I did say I will back down on the BTDT shaming over this and I was hasty to say you should be ashamed of yourselves, as perhaps at the time I thought the tie to BTDT and LB were more than they were.

    What did upset me was the laughter at GONEs expense. This is a poopy thing that happened and not really all that laugh worthy to me. Maybe because I don't put as much stock int he game as others. To be more specific, I do believe that there are people on this forum who take this stuff with them after they leave the forums or log out of the game. You are doing it wrong. I always stated back when I was top troll that none of this went with me. I used to despise Kimmie and her stupidity on the forums. I used to breathe fire on Az back in the day on the forums but I were to ever meet any of those people I would still offer them a handshake and a smile.

    I have told a few people this story the past day or so since this began, not sure if I put it here but... and my memory is hazy so bare with me...

    Back on round 5 we went for the Natar win and were successful. At the time I believe we were the superior alliance by a long shot. We had an op on one of the enemies WWs to knock it down a peg. Turns out we had a member of our group as a sitter for that WW. A minute or so before the hammers hit they logged on and sent all the defense home. I did not know of this prior to it happening and I freaked out. We did not need to do that. We were the stronger alliance and I felt ashamed that such a thing happened. We still would have "won", and we would have done it with honor. I felt that was a blow to our integrity. The win felt a little hollow knowing we used underhanded garbage to do it.

  3. #83

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    The laughing was poopy.

    We're discussing it now in Skype, a lot of us, and at the root of it we are kind of bummed.

    We didn't want to see this go down like this, and we prefer a strong opponent.

    For what it's worth, all I have done with my hammer during this time is starve it.

  4. #84

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    Don't starve it! Oh my, I hate starvation. I absolutely refuse to starve a single troop. Part of the reason I haven't slept well since coming back. I wake up early in the morning and the first thing I think is "I have to check my wheat!" Should never have started a dang account. I was out for years!

    From now on, anvil accounts.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    What did upset me was the laughter at GONEs expense. This is a poopy thing that happened and not really all that laugh worthy to me.
    There were too many posts, so I may have missed some replies. But you do realize that GONE did the exact same thing to another alliance right? The only difference was that no artifacts were involved.

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.p...=1#post2801283

    So its okay if your buddies do it, but if somebody does it to them, we should all sympathize with them? Really Kelsier?

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    Don't starve it! Oh my, I hate starvation. I absolutely refuse to starve a single troop. Part of the reason I haven't slept well since coming back. I wake up early in the morning and the first thing I think is "I have to check my wheat!" Should never have started a dang account. I was out for years!

    From now on, anvil accounts.
    As an anvil player (mostly) its not much easier. You defend someone, and all of a sudden you wake up to 10 villages -10k because they sent the reins back while you sleep.
    I've probably played 30 servers at this point

    US1 Honeybadger - http://travian-reports.net/us/report/46781746d83
    http://travian-reports.net/us/report/49535643339

    I blame blazin1 for any actions that may occur during the course of any server

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious_Machine View Post
    There were too many posts, so I may have missed some replies. But you do realize that GONE did the exact same thing to another alliance right? The only difference was that no artifacts were involved.

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.p...=1#post2801283

    So its okay if your buddies do it, but if somebody does it to them, we should all sympathize with them? Really Kelsier?
    Turn that argument around, V_M, it works both ways, they did it, so it's fine that we're doing it too? Or that Bane dud it? Some people bot and multi, does that mean we are ok with doing that ourselves?

    Whatever GONE or specific members of GONE have done at various points, that's on them. What we do is on us.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious_Machine View Post
    There were too many posts, so I may have missed some replies. But you do realize that GONE did the exact same thing to another alliance right? The only difference was that no artifacts were involved.

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.p...=1#post2801283

    So its okay if your buddies do it, but if somebody does it to them, we should all sympathize with them? Really Kelsier?
    I have only recently heard about this situation and would treat it just as I am treating this one. I would like to know the facts about it from both sides. But if I am honest, I don't have the time to dig into that one as well. But as Meherrin said below, one wrong doesn't justify another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teutons View Post
    As an anvil player (mostly) its not much easier. You defend someone, and all of a sudden you wake up to 10 villages -10k because they sent the reins back while you sleep.
    Don't put those thoughts in my head!

    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Turn that argument around, V_M, it works both ways, they did it, so it's fine that we're doing it too? Or that Bane dud it? Some people bot and multi, does that mean we are ok with doing that ourselves?

    Whatever GONE or specific members of GONE have done at various points, that's on them. What we do is on us.
    This.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    You guys keep making the assumption that LB did not act with deception to work his way into being a trusted member of the group.
    That's because they are on the server and have context.

    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeAdmiral View Post
    Tik didn't originally join GONE for this purpose.
    GONE was not deliberately infiltrated to destroy it. Anti TRA accounts were placed in the NE to make sure it remained viable against TRA and as insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    I'd like to hear anything that Tik did as a member of leadership and OC that benefited anyone other than himself.
    So this account acted only selfishly yet was given more and more access and control? Dang man. That's a heck of a condemnation of your current leadership.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    So this account acted only selfishly yet was given more and more access and control? Dang man. That's a heck of a condemnation of your current leadership.
    Our leadership just got a whole lot stronger on Thursday. Addition by subtraction.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    The laughing was poopy.

    We're discussing it now in Skype, a lot of us, and at the root of it we are kind of bummed.

    We didn't want to see this go down like this, and we prefer a strong opponent.

    For what it's worth, all I have done with my hammer during this time is starve it.
    I'm sure you guys are bummed about taking the two uniques and small speed arti LB had of ours back the same night he dropped tag, too.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    I'm sure you guys are bummed about taking the two uniques and small speed arti LB had of ours back the same night he dropped tag, too.
    Did you see me laughing?

    Look man, you might think I'm toxic, but a former ally of mine said I should be ashamed about what happened. At least I took a deep look at my involvement before I decided not to be ashamed.

    Have you?

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    Did you see me laughing?

    Look man, you might think I'm toxic, but a former ally of mine said I should be ashamed about what happened. At least I took a deep look at my involvement before I decided not to be ashamed.

    Have you?
    Yes. And I would rather delete and splat all of my troops on my leaders than ever remain a part of a group that was okay with benefiting from this type of sabotage, regardless of one's stated goals. Winning by sabotaging your enemy is hardly winning. And I would never play with people who thought otherwise.

    PS: For the most part, I do not consider you to be a contributor to the toxic environment of this embassy.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Yes. And I would rather delete and splat all of my troops.....
    So now you are trying to convince BTDT members as a whole to splat or delete against who exactly..? LB is not part of BTDT..

    Your condemnation of BTDT instead of yourself and LB is getting whiny..

    s1 : Storeythor http://travian-reports.net/us/report/2674061c50d
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    Gotta be talented to look after 2 WW's simultaneously. Or crazy... Crazy seems more like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gressor2 View Post
    The more I read of OdinLoki's posts, the more I want to play alongside him. Not for the results, as frequently good as they are, but for the sheer fun he seems to have at it. Would + rep if I could, man. Always enjoy reading your stuff... and mostly cringe at the results contained in 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chas00 View Post
    Storeythor,most offensive/defensive account holder on the server.
    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    He's a nut and the more the odds are stacked against him, the better he seems to come out of it.

  15. #95
    Consul Luisss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odinloki View Post
    So now you are trying to convince BTDT members as a whole to splat or delete against who exactly..? LB is not part of BTDT..

    Your condemnation of BTDT instead of yourself and LB is getting whiny..

    I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I am stating what I would do in this situation. I never said LB was in BTDT - you all did, however, take advantage of his actions and directly coordinate with him afterward in several ways.

    I'm also not condemning BTDT. I'm condemning LB's actions of sabotage. BTDT did use it to their advantage rather than distancing themselves from it, though.
    Last edited by Luisss; 03-13-2017 at 02:24 AM.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    you all did, however, take advantage of his actions and directly coordinate with him afterward in several ways.
    Well duh..it's a war game..
    s1 : Storeythor http://travian-reports.net/us/report/2674061c50d
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    Gotta be talented to look after 2 WW's simultaneously. Or crazy... Crazy seems more like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gressor2 View Post
    The more I read of OdinLoki's posts, the more I want to play alongside him. Not for the results, as frequently good as they are, but for the sheer fun he seems to have at it. Would + rep if I could, man. Always enjoy reading your stuff... and mostly cringe at the results contained in 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chas00 View Post
    Storeythor,most offensive/defensive account holder on the server.
    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    He's a nut and the more the odds are stacked against him, the better he seems to come out of it.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by odinloki View Post
    Well duh..it's a war game..
    I wouldn't have. I wouldn't trust a person that just betrayed their alliance.

    I get the entire the enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda thing...but if I were in BTDT leadership I would have personally refused to coordinate with him and I would have been opposed to accepting the essentially stolen artifacts.

    You guys are obviously free to do whatever obviously. I'm free to say that I think it's classless.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    I wouldn't have. I wouldn't trust a person that just betrayed their alliance.

    I get the entire the enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda thing...but if I were in BTDT leadership I would have personally refused to coordinate with him and I would have been opposed to accepting the essentially stolen artifacts.

    You guys are obviously free to do whatever obviously. I'm free to say that I think it's classless.
    ^This.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    I get the entire the enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda thing...but if I were in BTDT leadership I would have personally refused to coordinate with him and I would have been opposed to accepting the essentially stolen artifacts.

    You guys are obviously free to do whatever obviously. I'm free to say that I think it's classless.
    Clearly there are some in BTDT that are not ok with it all, and they have stated as much.. There are equally as many that are getting a good chuckle out of this.. The fact of the matter is as stated before, that LB did the deed and not BTDT..

    As for "coordinating" hits together, are you really going to tell me you have never coordinated landing times with anyone outside your alliance..?? Do we need to revisit the fact of you giving JD land times..?

    The artifacts are another matter entirely.. We could assume very likely that they would have come back to us anyway.. How he got them could be argued on morality, but it's spilled milk at this point..
    He offered them up and they give a tactical advantage in this war game, so when someone brings you a gifted horse, you don't look through it's mouth..

    The bottom line for me is this all could have been avoided.. It wasn't.. It's done..

    Now make troops and come get the arties back..
    s1 : Storeythor http://travian-reports.net/us/report/2674061c50d
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    Gotta be talented to look after 2 WW's simultaneously. Or crazy... Crazy seems more like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gressor2 View Post
    The more I read of OdinLoki's posts, the more I want to play alongside him. Not for the results, as frequently good as they are, but for the sheer fun he seems to have at it. Would + rep if I could, man. Always enjoy reading your stuff... and mostly cringe at the results contained in 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chas00 View Post
    Storeythor,most offensive/defensive account holder on the server.
    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    He's a nut and the more the odds are stacked against him, the better he seems to come out of it.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by odinloki View Post
    As for "coordinating" hits together, are you really going to tell me you have never coordinated landing times with anyone outside your alliance..?? Do we need to revisit the fact of you giving JD land times..?
    No, I've never coordinated landing times with anyone outside of my alliance. And sure, let's revisit the fact that I wasn't in GONE whenever this JD stuff transpired.

  21. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by odinloki View Post
    As for "coordinating" hits together, are you really going to tell me you have never coordinated landing times with anyone outside your alliance..?? Do we need to revisit the fact of you giving JD land times..?
    No, I've never coordinated landing times with anyone outside of my alliance. And sure, let's revisit the fact that I wasn't in GONE whenever this JD stuff transpired.
    I think its pretty obvious that "you" was in reference to GONE. I'm less than amused by semantics.
    Last edited by SupremeAdmiral; 03-13-2017 at 05:39 AM.

  22. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeAdmiral View Post
    I think its pretty obvious that "you" was in reference to GONE. I'm less than amused by semantics.
    He quoted me in his reply and said "you". If he were referring to my alliance he should have simply stated that to avoid any misunderstandings.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    What did upset me was the laughter at GONEs expense. This is a poopy thing that happened and not really all that laugh worthy to me. Maybe because I don't put as much stock int he game as others. To be more specific, I do believe that there are people on this forum who take this stuff with them after they leave the forums or log out of the game. You are doing it wrong. I always stated back when I was top troll that none of this went with me. I used to despise Kimmie and her stupidity on the forums. I used to breathe fire on Az back in the day on the forums but I were to ever meet any of those people I would still offer them a handshake and a smile.
    I'm not here to defend anyone, but to explain. I'm not sure where all the laughter was (maybe in the main Skype chat or IGMs? I don't have access to those) I don't think that any of us estimated the amount of carnage that was going to happen to GONE as a result. Obviously we could've expected a few blown up caps, maybe some chiefed hammers etc. Not for you guys to lose basically every shred of D that you have, or for morale to sink to the point where obvious fakes slide right through. I noticed early Sunday morning that we were pretty much catting empty shells of villages that were probably completely stuffed with phalanx a few weeks before. That was unexpected.

    I also don't think we were aware of the relationships that Tik Tok built up in the alliance. I saw all the Russian village names and honestly thought that Tik Tok wouldn't be talking much to anyone and would have/pretend to have poor English skills.
    Last edited by Lurk; 03-13-2017 at 12:18 PM.
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    [7:32 AM] Jason (Al Bundy raidslave): Who the **** loses an arti to 18 phalanx
    [7:32 AM] Old Timer US1: The same faction that loses one to 66 legos

  24. #104

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    @Lurk,

    I am assuming when you said "you guys" you were talking about GONE. But just in case you were lumping me in I am just going to state again that I am not on s1 and not affiliated with GONE what so ever. I have known Luisss for along time thanks to this game. We were always on opposite sides and back in the day I would troll him something fierce. Relentlessly. But just as I have stated before, nothing about this game goes with me after I leave the forums, or log out of the game. Well, not nothing, I wake up before my alarm ever goes off thinking "I must send raids", but I digress. Luisss and I both gained a friend from this game and these forums, from the ranks of our enemies. And trust me, he is not off the troll list.

    I said I started playing again and I am, on s3.

  25. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Yes. And I would rather delete and splat all of my troops on my leaders than ever remain a part of a group that was okay with benefiting from this type of sabotage, regardless of one's stated goals. Winning by sabotaging your enemy is hardly winning. And I would never play with people who thought otherwise.

    PS: For the most part, I do not consider you to be a contributor to the toxic environment of this embassy.
    No you didn't see me laughing. First I wasn't here that day, then I didn't laugh. I kind of felt like Kelsier did. I was disappointed, and haven't participated in attacking GONE.

    Am I supposed to quit now because you screwed up and let someone ruin your alliance? Am I supposed to stop fighting you now?

    Are you saying that you not only ruined this round for your team, you've ruined it for us?

    You should quit, not me.

    There are still people on your team ready to play. Try not to sabotage them any more, or better yet get out of their way.

  26. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Turn that argument around, V_M, it works both ways, they did it, so it's fine that we're doing it too? Or that Bane dud it? Some people bot and multi, does that mean we are ok with doing that ourselves?

    Whatever GONE or specific members of GONE have done at various points, that's on them. What we do is on us.
    Completely agree with this, and that is why I love you guys! But you missed my point Meherrin. If Team A does it to team B, and then somebody else does it to Team A. I do not get why team A is complaining about it. This is a tactic that GONE used themselves earlier this round. But now they are complaining when it is done to them? DA and Luis both used the word classless on this page, but it was ok when they did it to others?

    To your point, for example, if BTDT was botting and I was ok with it, I would not go around complaining about how the Zapp dual gets caught doing it repeatedly. If however, for the sake of argument, player A was botting and admitted it, and then played B botted and destroyed player A, I would laugh at player A. He would get no sympathy for me.

    To add to Lurk's post above/party to Kelsier's post. This is still just a game. If I met Luis, PoP, Nich, etc. I would be ok with a handshake and smile. Just because I despise their tactics, does not mean it would degrade to fist fights in a real life meeting. If people on us travian held grudges over destroyed villages, would Greg have any friends?????

  27. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    He quoted me in his reply and said "you". If he were referring to my alliance he should have simply stated that to avoid any misunderstandings.
    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeAdmiral View Post
    I think its pretty obvious that "you" was in reference to GONE. I'm less than amused by semantics.
    My badd.. I should have been specific.. DA, I quoted you because you said the content, but then Luisssssss said..
    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    ^This.
    ..to your post.. So yes I was directing my post to GONE in general, and more specifically to Luiss who was the one who gave land times to JD..


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    @Lurk,
    I am assuming when you said "you guys" you were talking about GONE. But just in case you were lumping me in I am just going to state again that I am not on s1 and not affiliated with GONE what so ever..
    I think I mentioned that.. "You guys" or something similar because you had said you were "helping them" at some point.. If you like, then when I have a free few minutes, I will be happy to look back for the actual quotes.. I do know you are not "on" s1 but I took your post to mean that you were at least helping them via skype or forum messenger in some sort of advisory role..


    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    You should quit, not me.
    There are still people on your team ready to play. Try not to sabotage them any more, or better yet get out of their way.
    ^^ agreed..
    Like I already said..
    Quote Originally Posted by odinloki View Post
    The bottom line for me is this all could have been avoided.. It wasn't.. It's done..
    Now make troops and come get the arties back..
    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious_Machine View Post
    To add to Lurk's post above/party to Kelsier's post. This is still just a game. If I met Luis, PoP, Nich, etc. I would be ok with a handshake and smile. Just because I despise their tactics, does not mean it would degrade to fist fights in a real life meeting. If people on us travian held grudges over destroyed villages, would Greg have any friends????
    Bahahahhaaa... I love you man..
    Also, I agree fully with your post, there are but only two people I have met from travian that I would not be willing to meet in real life.. I have met a few already.. I helped one find a home for her daughter here in Az, and met two others as they traveled through my State on their way to visit the Gran Canyon..

    Those other 2 people..well I don't hold an actual grudge, one was at one time someone I would spend time with talking on the phone, but that dynamic has changed.. I simply have no time to give to them any longer..
    Last edited by odinloki; 03-13-2017 at 10:33 PM.
    s1 : Storeythor http://travian-reports.net/us/report/2674061c50d
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    Gotta be talented to look after 2 WW's simultaneously. Or crazy... Crazy seems more like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gressor2 View Post
    The more I read of OdinLoki's posts, the more I want to play alongside him. Not for the results, as frequently good as they are, but for the sheer fun he seems to have at it. Would + rep if I could, man. Always enjoy reading your stuff... and mostly cringe at the results contained in 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chas00 View Post
    Storeythor,most offensive/defensive account holder on the server.
    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    He's a nut and the more the odds are stacked against him, the better he seems to come out of it.

  28. #108
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    @Lurk,

    I am assuming when you said "you guys" you were talking about GONE. But just in case you were lumping me in I am just going to state again that I am not on s1 and not affiliated with GONE what so ever.
    Understood. I have a very hard time keeping track of who is who in-game versus the forums. As an example, at this moment I don't even recall who SupremeAdmiral is.

    At this point I've caught up reading through this thread. I have to admit that I just don't have any strong feelings towards what happened to Gone and the whole Tik Tok thing. I guess I can see both sides. On the one hand getting dismantled by "friendly fire" is never a good feeling and I can definitely understand where that would leave a lot of bitterness. On the other hand, GONE leadership was warned multiple times that the way Luisss and others were posting on these forums was inspiring people to join accounts and act against GONE for the main purpose of deflating Luisss' ego. I know for a fact that Nichmanic was told in private around arti time that the style in which Luisss was posting was causing people to create a narrative of Luisss from which he might not ever recover. I said the same thing to Nich about DevilAnse back in February and Nich didn't even try to argue with me on that point for what it's worth. GONE was warned so many times about the arrogance, arguing, sarcasm, piss-poor humor, etc that I just cannot bring myself to feel a single shred of sympathy for anyone that remained in GONE despite these warnings only for those warnings to become reality. I also know for a fact that Nichmanic was warned multiple times about Luisss' piss-poor track record on other servers going back for years and years. He has, through his efforts at both off and def coordination, ruined his own alliance on multiple occasions. GONE council was warned about this by many different people and put Luisss in a position of leadership anyway.

    GONE members have posted eloquently about the fact that there are human beings behind the keyboards and behind the account names. That is true and they have expressed that point beautifully. The problem I have with that, though, is that it goes both ways. Humans have emotions, and humans have a tendency to create mental narratives about other humans and it is very difficult (to varying degrees depending on personality and life experiences) for anyone to rewrite the narrative. I mean that going both ways in a relationship - it's very hard to rewrite narratives you have of other people and it's very hard to rewrite someone else's narrative about you. Very hard, and it takes a lot of reflection, energy, and maturity that most people don't even know how to invest. It's not exactly taught in school.

    So when the narrative gets created about GONE being arrogant, boastful, crowing endlessly about small victories here and there, being argumentative, refusing to acknowledge eff-ups...it's going to stick and it's going to stick hard, and it's going to stick hard for months and months. You know that whole thing about how it takes 10 compliments to undo the relationship-damage done by one insulting phrase? There's a lot of truth to that. It takes time too in addition.

    A thousand apologies from Luisss and his attempts to make amends don't rewrite narratives. It's obvious that he's making efforts to be more mature and show a more emotionally intelligent side of himself on these forums. While that's a good thing for everyone involved it's going to take more time than we have left in this server for any of those narratives to be healed and rewritten. And I'll point out that that isn't fair to the people - anyone, really - that sincerely desires to make amends. But that's kind of one of the "poopy" hard facts about life.

    For reference a lot of this started when GONE held the majority of the artis on the server and Luisss was making a big deal out of all that. He posted and argued and trolled till people got tired of it and threads turned ugly.

    But I'd also like to point out one thing - Luisss attempting to shame BTDT for "taking advantage" of what Tik Tok did is, IMO, ridiculous unless he can plausibly state that, if such a thing happened in BTDT, every single account in GONE would completely lay off any attacks on BTDT until the damage was rebuilt. That would be an incredible claim and, IMO, completely outside of what can be reasonably expected in a freaking video game.

    So, after a big textwall, I guess I still see both sides to this. I don't feel bad for GONE but I don't feel mirth either. I'm just going to continue doing what I've been doing, which is going for the Natar win.
    Last edited by Lurk; 03-13-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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    [7:32 AM] Jason (Al Bundy raidslave): Who the **** loses an arti to 18 phalanx
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  29. #109

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    ^^ Everything Lurk said.

  30. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by odinloki View Post
    I think I mentioned that.. "You guys" or something similar because you had said you were "helping them" at some point.. If you like, then when I have a free few minutes, I will be happy to look back for the actual quotes.. I do know you are not "on" s1 but I took your post to mean that you were at least helping them via skype or forum messenger in some sort of advisory role..
    I helped them sort out a little more information on one of their accounts. I only have contact with Luisss inside the GONE alliance. That is the extent of the help I provided them, and I was only a middle man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Long but very well typed post.
    Lurk, very nice post. Well, I guess I am just a different type of person as I have grown older and wiser. I just cannot see how anything, ANYTHING on these forums or in this game can drive someone to do what he did. I feel like people just take the internet as a whole way too seriously. You let anonymous people get to you over the internet? I think I had a quick conversation on the s1 forums here about "death threats" or "threats to cause harm" over the internet. Giggles. Whatever. I think that is just a difference in mind sets. Some people take the 3% chance of a bad outcome and stress over it and others see the other 97% likelyhood and just brush it off.

    What I am "arguing" against, at the core, is that you do not like Luisss's forum persona because he does not agree with you, was on the other side of the battlefield, you think he is a terrible person, what ever the reason is not important really, so much that "you guys" just flame on him incessantly. Because it was Luisss's group, "you guys" just shoot him down and anyone affiliated with him. From the outside, it is really bad. It is hard to see tone in texts but there is a blatant difference in posting style when some are replying to me and when the same people then reply to Luisss. At the core, "you guys" are using Luisss as the reason for it happening, when I am arguing that, if "you" were a well adjusted person, you would not take this hatred with you off the forums and out of the game. Now don't come saying, well it happened in game so it stayed in game. No, LB took it out of the game and out of the forums. He took it unto himself. He was "consumed" by it and made the play for months and months.

    *I used quotes around "you guys" to signify the group of people perpetrating the acts, not anyone specifically.

  31. #111

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    I wish you were helping them more. In spite of what some people think, the core of BTDT wants a strong GONE...so that we may destroy it.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    What I am "arguing" against, at the core, is that you do not like Luisss's forum persona because he does not agree with you, was on the other side of the battlefield, you think he is a terrible person, what ever the reason is not important really
    I can't speak for anyone else here. I don't like Luisss' forum persona because he has shown himself in the last few months stretching back to the last several years to be cocky, arrogant, argumentative with any point to death no matter how pointless, and just tasteless in general. I don't know what motivations others would have for disliking his forum persona, but I'm pretty confident that the list I just wrote out would be agreed upon by just about everyone here except probably DA and possibly Pandas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    Because it was Luisss's group, "you guys" just shoot him down and anyone affiliated with him.
    I disagree for the most part, especially the "anyone affiliated with him" line. I'll concede the point that Luisss is stuck in a bad narrative in such a way that the flaws and problems in the stuff he posts has been exaggerated or at least magnified and extrapolated upon to an excessive degree. But I strongly disagree with the notion that "anyone (of his) affiliates" gets shot down automatically. I don't think Pandas has received a whole lot of rough treatment. Certainly not recently (I vaguely remember one post where V_M went a bit too far) and certainly not to the degree that Luisss received and DA invited mistreatment. I don't recall a single instance of Nichmanic getting any rough treatment at all whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    It is hard to see tone in texts but there is a blatant difference in posting style when some are replying to me and when the same people then reply to Luisss.
    I'm trying really hard not to sound snarky here, but it's easy to see in the texts that there is a blatant difference in posting style between you and Luisss.

    Also, this sentence conflicts with the one above ^ about how we shoot down anyone affiliated with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    At the core, "you guys" are using Luisss as the reason for it happening, when I am arguing that, if "you" were a well adjusted person, you would not take this hatred with you off the forums and out of the game.
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but to the best of my knowledge no-one from BTDT et al has ever even attempted to make contact with Luisss in real life. I hope I'm right in saying that. I really really hope no-one from Travian has ever done anything to him off-game.

    Maybe LB made Travian and ruining yet another server for Luisss (there have been so many; I don't recall him ever winning one) a bigger part of his life than what's healthy. But that's between him, his real-life friends, and his doctor.
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  33. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
    I wish you were helping them more. In spite of what some people think, the core of BTDT wants a strong GONE...so that we may destroy it.
    I ain't got time for all that noise. :P

    EDIT FOR LURK:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I can't speak for anyone else here. I don't like Luisss' forum persona because he has shown himself in the last few months stretching back to the last several years to be cocky, arrogant, argumentative with any point to death no matter how pointless, and just tasteless in general. I don't know what motivations others would have for disliking his forum persona, but I'm pretty confident that the list I just wrote out would be agreed upon by just about everyone here except probably DA and possibly Pandas.
    As I found out you were not with us back in the TRU/HB/JOY days, you have no idea how bad we were on these forums, as to your first point. Cocky? Check. Arrogant... you kidding me? As for the argumentative point, an argument takes at minimum, two people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I disagree for the most part, especially the "anyone affiliated with him" line. I'll concede the point that Luisss is stuck in a bad narrative in such a way that the flaws and problems in the stuff he posts has been exaggerated or at least magnified and extrapolated upon to an excessive degree. But I strongly disagree with the notion that "anyone (of his) affiliates" gets shot down automatically. I don't think Pandas has received a whole lot of rough treatment. Certainly not recently (I vaguely remember one post where V_M went a bit too far) and certainly not to the degree that Luisss received and DA invited mistreatment. I don't recall a single instance of Nichmanic getting any rough treatment at all whatsoever.
    Ok, maybe I went too far saying "anyone". Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I'm trying really hard not to sound snarky here, but it's easy to see in the texts that there is a blatant difference in posting style between you and Luisss.

    Also, this sentence conflicts with the one above ^ about how we shoot down anyone affiliated with him.
    I will just say again that I feel I would be more affiliated with BTDTs group just because of the history I have with a few of their members. I don't know anyone in GONE from Steve other than Luisss. I may be seen as "taking Luisss' side" in this so I can understand you "affiliating" me with them as you were not around as much back in my hay day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but to the best of my knowledge no-one from BTDT et al has ever even attempted to make contact with Luisss in real life. I hope I'm right in saying that. I really really hope no-one from Travian has ever done anything to him off-game.

    Maybe LB made Travian and ruining yet another server for Luisss (there have been so many; I don't recall him ever winning one) a bigger part of his life than what's healthy. But that's between him, his real-life friends, and his doctor.
    You did misunderstand as I am not saying LB or anyone, out of game, in real life, did anything to Luisss. He took it "out of game" by committing a solid portion of time in his day, week, year, whatever, to pull off this stunt.

    But here you give me an example of what I am saying about the nonstop bashing. You were saying about LB ruining the server for Luisss, then sneak in an unneeded jab at Luisss in parentheses. Though I do agree that he needs to, maybe not seek professional assistance, but just step away from Travian.
    Last edited by Kelsier; 03-13-2017 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Lurks post

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    Though I do agree that he needs to, maybe not seek professional assistance, but just step away from Travian.
    No, it's not even that he needs to step away from Travian. What he needs to do is, first, stop posting as if he's some kind of invincible badass that wins servers and is actually good at coordinating hits. He's already done this and I believe he's sincere in the changes he's making. But what he also needs to do is accept that he's not good in a leadership role, admit, at least to himself, that his current and previous roles in leadership have never worked out well in the last analysis for anyone involved, and play as a regular rank-and-file player. That's what he should've done many servers ago; that's the advice he was given many servers ago; and if he'd taken that advice then there's an enormous pile of bad **** that's happened that never would have.

    That's what I was getting at in the parenthesis there. It wasn't meant to be offensive or a jab or whatever. Whenever I've spoken to him one-on-one away from the cameras and the posturing and the artificially inflated egos he's not a bad guy to talk to. Just like he has a good spirit that he for whatever reason finds near-impossible to show publicly on these forums I have a genuine desire that he become a better person in general that I have a hard time showing on these forums. So chalk all this up to "tough love" is what I'd prefer to call it. What you judge it as is up to you and I'm running out of the energy required to explain myself. So I'm gonna log off this thing for awhile and let "you guys" simmer down.
    Last edited by Lurk; 03-13-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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    [7:32 AM] Old Timer US1: The same faction that loses one to 66 legos

  35. #115

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    I was talking about LB, not Luisss.

  36. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    I will just say again that I feel I would be more affiliated with BTDTs group just because of the history I have with a few of their members. I don't know anyone in GONE from Steve other than Luisss. I may be seen as "taking Luisss' side" in this so I can understand you "affiliating" me with them as you were not around as much back in my hay day.
    It is only because you came in with the assumption that we were involved because sources, but not our sources, and some people were showing a bit of poor sportsmanship.

    You have since backed off of the first argument, and are still championing the latter.

    <3

    Edit to be crystal clear:
    BTDT didn't do this - pretty much confirmed. I believe Kelsier's conceded this multiple times.
    Some of BTDT showed bad sportsmanship - I concede this one.

    Edit2:
    Pay attention folks, this is how you argue while showing respect.

    Edit3:
    When we say that we play to a high ethical standard, there are many people like kels that will hold us to that claim.
    Last edited by bugzy; 03-13-2017 at 04:31 PM.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I'm not here to defend anyone, but to explain. I'm not sure where all the laughter was (maybe in the main Skype chat or IGMs? I don't have access to those) I don't think that any of us estimated the amount of carnage that was going to happen to GONE as a result. Obviously we could've expected a few blown up caps, maybe some chiefed hammers etc. Not for you guys to lose basically every shred of D that you have, or for morale to sink to the point where obvious fakes slide right through. I noticed early Sunday morning that we were pretty much catting empty shells of villages that were probably completely stuffed with phalanx a few weeks before. That was unexpected.

    I also don't think we were aware of the relationships that Tik Tok built up in the alliance. I saw all the Russian village names and honestly thought that Tik Tok wouldn't be talking much to anyone and would have/pretend to have poor English skills.
    I personally got laughter from BTDT in IGMs. I was annoyed at first, but then just shrugged it off. Tik speaks russian fluently, but he's american (though who knows what to believe about the guy anymore) and was active in BGs and our main chat...not as chatty as some of us *ahem* but still was present.
    US1:R3 Alliteration -oNE R10 Twist of Fate -GONE
    US3: R10 Buccaneers - TBN (dual)
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    US5: R2 Susugam - ROBR R3 Twist of Fate - NEWD

  38. #118

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    Are we serious? People get so worked up over some posts on a forum and a Skype chat that it makes them want to join a game to blow people up?

    I want to blow my enemies up every round that I play and I don't need a forum post to motivate me to want to do it.

    I'd say that if you're that sensitive that a post on a forum bothers you to that point, you probably should stay away from that forum or find a mental health professional.

  39. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    He took it "out of game" by committing a solid portion of time in his day, week, year, whatever, to pull off this stunt.
    Not so much actually. I spend very little time or money on this game. Far less of both than most people posting here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I don't think that any of us estimated the amount of carnage that was going to happen to GONE as a result.

  40. #120

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    Look at me!

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