View Poll Results: Do you approve such tax?

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Thread: UK Sugar/obesity Tax

  1. #1
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Default UK Sugar/obesity Tax

    So the UK would tax sugars to fight obesity!

    Quote Originally Posted by Independent
    Budget 2017: New sugar tax confirmed by Philip Hammond in fight to combat rising obesity
    Quote Originally Posted by Independent
    Tax on drinks with more than five grams of sugar per 100ml will be levied by 18p per litre, while those with eight grams or more of sugar per 100ml will have an extra tax of 24p per litre.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun
    SUGAR AND PRICE Budget 2017 – new sugar tax to fight rising obesity will add 8p to can of Coca-Cola from next April
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sun
    Health experts welcomed the “bold” move, with the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, adding it “is a real victory for child health”.Dr Mark Porter, chair of the BMA, said: “This is a welcome and crucial move.
    “With one in five children starting primary school overweight, this is a vital step forward.”
    But he said, alone a sugar tax is not enough.
    He called for restrictions on junk food marketing that targets kids and action on price promotions.
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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    We should put all the dark soda manufacturers out of business. Also, lets remove all those sugar cane farms from everywhere because they are horrible for the environment.
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  3. #3

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    I support this.

    However I prefer to drink soda with cane sugar and not high fructose corn syrup.

  4. #4
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    Like all laws that reduce social freedom this is awful.

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    In general, I'm not fond of sales taxes as they are regressive.

    It is true that using this tactic with cigarettes and other tobacco products has resulted in some reduction in use jurisdictions where it has been tried, which is part of the rationale for using it to try and reduce consumption of junk food/soft drinks. But in most places, the increased taxes on cigarettes have been part of a multi-pronged program that has also included education, denormalisation and support for harm reduction strategies (nicotine patches, 'smokeless' cigarettes, etc.

    Taxes alone won't do the job, especially when fast foods/junk foods/sodas are so prevalent in the culture, and so easy to obtain, especially for the economically disadvantaged, who often lack the means to buy healthier foods for a variety of reasons.
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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    We should be asking the important questions. Does the tax revenue go to actually helping people who are obese lose the weight and live better lives? Or schools/ roads. Just asking....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Taxes alone won't do the job, especially when fast foods/junk foods/sodas are so prevalent in the culture, and so easy to obtain, especially for the economically disadvantaged, who often lack the means to buy healthier foods for a variety of reasons.
    I disagree if "the means" here is referring to their economic status. It is way cheaper and healthier to buy even fast-food-like items in the store and cook them at home. For example in my area for a Mickey ***** double cheeseburger you get about .2 pounds of meat and 2 slices of crappy cheese for 1.29 not including tax. .2 pounds of even lean meat in the store costs about 60 cents and if you parsed out the math even on way better quality bread and cheese it's might be close-ish to that number, but will not exceed it. Plus all those things are tax free if you get them from the store.

    Fries etc are the same way. Potatoes are .38/pound here. A small fry from MS is 2ozs, so a dollar for an 1/8th pound. A 24 pack of soda costs $8 and I believe a Mickey ***** 16oz is still a buck. For the same 16 ounces in the 24 pack from the store you pay 44 cents. 16[8/(24*12)]

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Does the tax revenue go to actually helping people who are obese lose the weight and live better lives? Or schools/ roads. Just asking....
    Better schools would help people lose weight regardless. Education is very important in living the non-Mickey-***** lifestyle as I demonstrate ^ above.
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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    I'm a firm believer of making laws and taxes to protect idiots from themselves is a good thing....
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I'm a firm believer of making laws and taxes to protect idiots from themselves is a good thing....
    Only in the sense of satisfying whatever sense of "justice" is lurking in your brain. Kind of like the death penalty - it makes everyone else feel better but is totally ineffective as a deterrent, and places where it's tried often have worse problems than places that try real solutions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    it makes everyone else feel better
    I wouldn't say that.

    Also, I don't see how what you said disagrees with what Meherrin said. Clarification?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    I wouldn't say that.
    Sorry, I meant it makes its supporters feel better. People that believe in mathematics obviously don't feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Also, I don't see how what you said disagrees with what Meherrin said. Clarification?
    She strongly implied that people buy fast food do so because they lack economic means to buy healthier food. I disagree because the math doesn't support the (implied) notion that fast food is cheaper than buying from a store. Even if you buy the same stuff from the store you save money and have at least superior ingredients.

    She (or you) would have to be more specific about what kinds of foods are healthier for me to parse out the math on less-similar ingredients. There are definitely options for cheaper vegetables and fruits here. Problem is people aren't educated enough to make them taste good like I do.
    Last edited by Lurk; 03-08-2017 at 10:05 PM.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Sorry, I meant it makes its supporters feel better. People that believe in mathematics obviously don't feel better.



    She strongly implied that people buy fast food do so because they lack economic means to buy healthier food. I disagree because the math doesn't support the (implied) notion that fast food is cheaper than buying from a store. Even if you buy the same stuff from the store you save money and have at least superior ingredients.

    She (or you) would have to be more specific about what kinds of foods are healthier for me to parse out the math on less-similar ingredients. There are definitely options for cheaper vegetables and fruits here. Problem is people aren't educated enough to make them taste good like I do.
    If you also consider poorer people are less intelligent, it does make sense.
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  13. #13
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    Oh the privilege....

    If you are trying to subsist on a low wage, have kids at home that you can barely afford to clothe, you don't have that extra hour or two, to go past the local fast food joint, or local store that sells greasies, to get to a fresh food market, or a decent sized supermarket, wander around and choose your ingredients and pop next door to the butcher, let alone the time to fry your own burgers and put a delicious fresh meal together at home. Sure, decent food CAN be cheaper, but its not nearly as convenient, and the first time you throw out a head of broccoli because it's gone off, it's probably the last time you buy one.

    Not to mention that if you grow up in a fast food culture, that is what you know. While the shareholders of the golden arches are sitting around sipping martinis on their Caribbean holidays, and the staff are sweating for 60 hrs to make enough to even survive on, the society is inundated with signals from a very young age about what to do. EAT THERE!!! DRINK SODA!!! it will make you happy and beautiful.

    This tax is being tried because it is cheaper to buy dark soda than water or milk in most places. How ridiculous is that?

    So, tax the hell out of it, even if it's just for long enough that society re-sets it's expectations and the golden arches start advertising water and milk instead. But advertise - spend serious money on it, all that tax - informing people about why and how to do the alternative. Don't advertise things society doesn't want in front of the vulnerable. Don't advertise junk food at kids sports. Don't advertise gambling at all. It doesn't restrict anyone's freedoms to do whatever they want, it just reduces the encouragement of profiteering from misery and ill health.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    If you also consider poorer people are less intelligent, it does make sense.
    You really can be an arrogant ******** Sap. How about less well educated instead? Hence, less well fed, hence less healthy, hence with less opportunities, hence poorer, hence less well educated, hence, less well fed... ad infinitum. The most intelligent among us are often sitting in the street with nowhere to live because of mental health problems. Intelligence, which you think you have in abundance and everyone that disagrees with you is lacking, is not the best indicator of anything really. It is certainly has no bearing on worth, when you look at what some of the most intelligent do.

    IF there is a direct link with poverty, that is just a sad indictment of society.
    Last edited by Rokchick; 03-08-2017 at 11:57 PM.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    I support this.

    However I prefer to drink soda with cane sugar and not high fructose corn syrup.
    You're right, this will just drive them into different, worse sweeteners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
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  15. #15
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    How about less well educated instead? Hence, less well fed, hence less healthy, hence with less opportunities, hence poorer, hence less well educated, hence, less well fed... ad infinitum.
    I believe that IQ/intelligence is slightly affected by food and nutritions!

    but poor people don't have much choice to get healthier food because they don't have time to buy and cook, since they work two shifts and can barely have enough time with their kids!


    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    IF there is a direct link with poverty, that is just a sad indictment of society.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    I support this.

    However I prefer to drink soda with cane sugar and not high fructose corn syrup.
    Durn Skippy. I have a can of pure cane sugar Pepsi almost every day and it is utter bliss. The corn syrup Pepsi tastes nasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    In general, I'm not fond of sales taxes as they are regressive.

    It is true that using this tactic with cigarettes and other tobacco products has resulted in some reduction in use jurisdictions where it has been tried, which is part of the rationale for using it to try and reduce consumption of junk food/soft drinks. But in most places, the increased taxes on cigarettes have been part of a multi-pronged program that has also included education, denormalisation and support for harm reduction strategies (nicotine patches, 'smokeless' cigarettes, etc.

    Taxes alone won't do the job, especially when fast foods/junk foods/sodas are so prevalent in the culture, and so easy to obtain, especially for the economically disadvantaged, who often lack the means to buy healthier foods for a variety of reasons.
    Exactly. Taxes alone won't do it. NY State put an insane tax on tobacco, but then added programs and multi-media ads to help with quitting. It has worked some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I disagree if "the means" here is referring to their economic status. It is way cheaper and healthier to buy even fast-food-like items in the store and cook them at home. For example in my area for a Mickey ***** double cheeseburger you get about .2 pounds of meat and 2 slices of crappy cheese for 1.29 not including tax. .2 pounds of even lean meat in the store costs about 60 cents and if you parsed out the math even on way better quality bread and cheese it's might be close-ish to that number, but will not exceed it. Plus all those things are tax free if you get them from the store.

    Fries etc are the same way. Potatoes are .38/pound here. A small fry from MS is 2ozs, so a dollar for an 1/8th pound. A 24 pack of soda costs $8 and I believe a Mickey ***** 16oz is still a buck. For the same 16 ounces in the 24 pack from the store you pay 44 cents. 16[8/(24*12)]



    Better schools would help people lose weight regardless. Education is very important in living the non-Mickey-***** lifestyle as I demonstrate ^ above.
    When I was working 1 full time job and 2 part time jobs, all for amazingly crap wages, and also taking care of my baby boy during the days while my-now ex-wife worked days, we flocked to fast food joints just because it was something we could afford and it was fast. Just how it is.
    When it comes to store-bought food, just like hookers, nasty unhealthy is just cheaper. Package of hot dogs compared to good sausage, 80% lean hamburger compared to a NY Strip steak. It's just how it is.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I disagree if "the means" here is referring to their economic status. It is way cheaper and healthier to buy even fast-food-like items in the store and cook them at home. For example in my area for a Mickey ***** double cheeseburger you get about .2 pounds of meat and 2 slices of crappy cheese for 1.29 not including tax. .2 pounds of even lean meat in the store costs about 60 cents and if you parsed out the math even on way better quality bread and cheese it's might be close-ish to that number, but will not exceed it. Plus all those things are tax free if you get them from the store.

    Fries etc are the same way. Potatoes are .38/pound here. A small fry from MS is 2ozs, so a dollar for an 1/8th pound. A 24 pack of soda costs $8 and I believe a Mickey ***** 16oz is still a buck. For the same 16 ounces in the 24 pack from the store you pay 44 cents. 16[8/(24*12)]



    Better schools would help people lose weight regardless. Education is very important in living the non-Mickey-***** lifestyle as I demonstrate ^ above.
    Not just price, no. But price is more of a factor that you suggest. A diet containing fresh fruits snd vegetables, healthier choices (milk or juice rather than soda, for example) is more expensive. Not by much, if you can shop wisely, but even a small increase can be beyond some poor people.

    Poorer people are less likely to be able to do things like benefit from buying in bulk. They may be able to shop less often and thus will buy items that don't spoil - which means fewer fresh fruits and vegetables.

    Studies have shown that in North America, larger grocery stores are less likely to be located near areas where poorer people live. Scheduling longer trips by public transportation may be difficult if you are working two low-paid, often part-time jobs, as many of the working poor do. Or if you have a car, the extra gas adds up. Child care can be an issue when trying to shop.

    There's some relevant discussion of these issues in these links:

    "This is a difficult trap to escape. According to research from the Harvard School of Public Health, healthy meals cost an average of $1.50 more per day (or ~$45 per month) than unhealthy meals. When you have money, that’s not a huge deal. However, if you make the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour and you work 40 hours per week, that amounts to roughly 3.6% of your yearly salary. If you can only get the part time hours of 32 hours per week (which is more common for minimum wage jobs), it’s 4.5% of your yearly take home. Before taxes, by the way.

    When $1.50 a day can account for nearly 5% of your yearly salary, it’s no surprise you choose the $1 soda over the $4 orange juice. Who the hell cares about “long-term health consequences” when you can barely pay rent? You know what has some serious “long-term health consequences”? Getting evicted. I’ll pay rent today and worry about heart disease later."
    http://lifehacker.com/being-poor-is-...ive-1736233505

    "Lower diet quality separates lower-income from the more affluent Americans3. Higher-income households are more likely to buy whole grains, seafood, lean meats, low-fat milk, and fresh vegetables and fruit. Lower-income households purchase more cereals, pasta, potatoes, legumes, and fatty meats. Their vegetables and fruits are often limited to iceberg lettuce, potatoes, canned corn, bananas, and frozen orange juice.

    Many nutritionists insist that all Americans have equal access to healthy fresh foods; if only they made the effort4. In reality, energy-dense sweets and fats are tasty, cheap, readily available, and convenient. Where kitchen facilities, cooking skills, money or time are limited or absent, they offer satisfying, if nutrient-poor, options. They also help reduce waste, spoilage, and cooking costs. Not surprisingly, they are often chosen in preference to fresh produce and other more nutrient rich foods by lower income groups5."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2847733/

    "But the cost for some families goes beyond the sticker price, Ramirez explained. Members of many lower-income families work multiple jobs and don’t have the time to shop without a car, then prepare foods, for example. And fresh foods spoil or might be shunned by children, risking wasting household resources."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b060480e0788a6
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    You really can be an arrogant ******** Sap. How about less well educated instead? Hence, less well fed, hence less healthy, hence with less opportunities, hence poorer, hence less well educated, hence, less well fed... ad infinitum. The most intelligent among us are often sitting in the street with nowhere to live because of mental health problems. Intelligence, which you think you have in abundance and everyone that disagrees with you is lacking, is not the best indicator of anything really. It is certainly has no bearing on worth, when you look at what some of the most intelligent do.

    IF there is a direct link with poverty, that is just a sad indictment of society.
    I'm not being arrogant. Merely applying statistics. well educated is just a politically correct term. Though, if you look at IQ as well, those who are unfit for college, they are also poorer. So it's not just due to lack of education as you say. Though, I would call that synonymous with what I said, albeit less blunt, but no different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    have kids at home that you can barely afford to clothe
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    to go past the local fast food joint, or local store that sells greasies,
    Already covered, plus you contradict yourself. Plus "an hour or two" is a vast exaggeration unless you're eating like a king or a pig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I disagree because the math doesn't support the (implied) notion that fast food is cheaper than buying from a store.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Not to mention that if you grow up in a fast food culture, that is what you know.
    Already covered:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Education is very important in living the non-Mickey-***** lifestyle as I demonstrate ^ above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    This tax is being tried because it is cheaper to buy dark soda than water or milk in most places. How ridiculous is that?
    Extremely, IMO, if you actually mean the stuff you say in the sentences above. It's the same way with "extra" taxes for cigarettes and other unhealthy things that poor/uneducated people purchase in disproportionate amounts. You pretend to care about them by forcing them to spend more money on stuff that they like.

    The reality is that you don't actually care about the poor except when it's convenient for you. It's easy for you to be a social justice warrior via the keyboard, but when it comes to legislation and non-profit programs you could not possibly give a ****. At every other moment of the day (and there's not many, it seems) that your oversized *** isn't behind your keyboard therwise you think they should just be punished for being uneducated or addicted.
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    Meh/Dan, I'll respond to your posts in the morning. I have to go to work and actually help people (the exact opposite of what Rok does). Just wanted you to know I didn't ignore your posts, just out of time.
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    You're right, this will just drive them into different, worse sweeteners.
    They already do. Soda moved away from cane sugar because it is too expensive. I dont avoid high fructose corn syrup but I know that cane sugar tastes much better.

    Artificial sweeteners are the worst. I actively avoid them. Diet sodas are the worst lie. I prefer drinking water in general, rarely do I ever have a soda.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I disagree if "the means" here is referring to their economic status. It is way cheaper and healthier to buy even fast-food-like items in the store and cook them at home. For example in my area for a Mickey ***** double cheeseburger you get about .2 pounds of meat and 2 slices of crappy cheese for 1.29 not including tax. .2 pounds of even lean meat in the store costs about 60 cents and if you parsed out the math even on way better quality bread and cheese it's might be close-ish to that number, but will not exceed it. Plus all those things are tax free if you get them from the store.

    Fries etc are the same way. Potatoes are .38/pound here. A small fry from MS is 2ozs, so a dollar for an 1/8th pound. A 24 pack of soda costs $8 and I believe a Mickey ***** 16oz is still a buck. For the same 16 ounces in the 24 pack from the store you pay 44 cents. 16[8/(24*12)]
    Tbh though, people keep saying "healthy food is so expensive."

    But really, if they cared about saving money, they could buy a 2 lb bag of frozen french fries for $2 ($1/lb). White bread is $1.50/lb. Chicken is $2/lb. Apples are $1/lb.

    And as Lurk said, the equivalent portions to cost at McDonald's would be several times more expensive.

    Also, Lurk, a beef patty at McD is 2 oz (.125 lb), though many sources say it's closer to 1.6 oz after cooking.

    My roommate worked for Harris Teeter in the past as a VP of database analysis in sales strategy and marketing. What they found out is that poor people do a few things:

    1.) They don't shop around coupons. Those who used food stamps were the least likely to use coupons. Also, those who partially paid with food stamps, etc. And those stores located in poorer neighborhoods rarely received coupons (manufacturer or store) during check out. The most used stores were affluent neighborhoods.

    2.) Poorer people were more strict about their shopping lists. They didn't sub the chicken breast on sale for 50% off instead of getting the chicken tenderloins to save money, etc.

    3.) They usually purchased processed foods over the base products. For instance, for breakfast, you could buy a dozen eggs for $1.75 (15 cents each), a lb of bread for $1.50, etc and make an egg sandwich for breakfast for $0.50. Instead, they buy the processed cereal, which is $4 a box, along with the $4/gallon milk, and end up spending $2 on breakfast or $6 for the kids to eat too. They also buy the 4 poptarts for $2, the toaster strudel for $3, the frozen pizzas for $4, the pizza bites for $4, etc. And most of that stuff, by the pound is very expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.


    My internet brings all the nerds to the yard, And there like, Its better than yours, Damn right its better than yours, I can share with you, But I have to charge!
    La la-la la la, I know Rok wants it! La la-la la la, and it's on Wifi! Imagine if I bothered to tether it! La la-la la la, nah nah nah nah nah! La la-la la la!

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    They already do. Soda moved away from cane sugar because it is too expensive. I dont avoid high fructose corn syrup but I know that cane sugar tastes much better.

    Artificial sweeteners are the worst. I actively avoid them. Diet sodas are the worst lie. I prefer drinking water in general, rarely do I ever have a soda.
    Here they moved away from it. Obviously not so much in the UK, or HFCS would be apart of the tax.

    The funny thing about artificial sweeteners are the studies that show that they slow down your metabolism when you consume them. So if you drink a can of pop at dinner, the 100 calories you saved from the pop is offset by the several hundred calories your body stored when it slowed your metabolism. I saw some studies suggest as much as 50% slower metabolic absorption.

    Though, out of all of those, Stevia isn't that bad. My roommate has diabetes, and it really is a great substitute, and it doesn't have a bitter aftertaste, and it's sweeter than sugar.

    And it has less than 1 on the glycemic index.

    EDIT: So, besides the pop no longer being diet, you're also drinking sweetened cancer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.


    My internet brings all the nerds to the yard, And there like, Its better than yours, Damn right its better than yours, I can share with you, But I have to charge!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Though, out of all of those, Stevia isn't that bad. My roommate has diabetes, and it really is a great substitute, and it doesn't have a bitter aftertaste, and it's sweeter than sugar.

    And it has less than 1 on the glycemic index.
    Our local health food store carries a line of fruit sodas with stevia. I actually enjoy them more than "real" soda - they are much lighter and more refreshing.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Our local health food store carries a line of fruit sodas with stevia. I actually enjoy them more than "real" soda - they are much lighter and more refreshing.
    Yeah, Stevia is very light compared to sugar. As well, 3/4 cups of sugar is the equivalent of 2.5 tbsp of Stevia. Though, that makes it hard subbing it in recipes, since the volume and weight is so different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.


    My internet brings all the nerds to the yard, And there like, Its better than yours, Damn right its better than yours, I can share with you, But I have to charge!
    La la-la la la, I know Rok wants it! La la-la la la, and it's on Wifi! Imagine if I bothered to tether it! La la-la la la, nah nah nah nah nah! La la-la la la!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Meh/Dan, I'll respond to your posts in the morning. I have to go to work and actually help people (the exact opposite of what Rok does). Just wanted you to know I didn't ignore your posts, just out of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Tbh though, people keep saying "healthy food is so expensive."

    But really, if they cared about saving money, they could buy a 2 lb bag of frozen french fries for $2 ($1/lb). White bread is $1.50/lb. Chicken is $2/lb. Apples are $1/lb.

    And as Lurk said, the equivalent portions to cost at McDonald's would be several times more expensive.

    Also, Lurk, a beef patty at McD is 2 oz (.125 lb), though many sources say it's closer to 1.6 oz after cooking.

    My roommate worked for Harris Teeter in the past as a VP of database analysis in sales strategy and marketing. What they found out is that poor people do a few things:

    1.) They don't shop around coupons. Those who used food stamps were the least likely to use coupons. Also, those who partially paid with food stamps, etc. And those stores located in poorer neighborhoods rarely received coupons (manufacturer or store) during check out. The most used stores were affluent neighborhoods.

    2.) Poorer people were more strict about their shopping lists. They didn't sub the chicken breast on sale for 50% off instead of getting the chicken tenderloins to save money, etc.

    3.) They usually purchased processed foods over the base products. For instance, for breakfast, you could buy a dozen eggs for $1.75 (15 cents each), a lb of bread for $1.50, etc and make an egg sandwich for breakfast for $0.50. Instead, they buy the processed cereal, which is $4 a box, along with the $4/gallon milk, and end up spending $2 on breakfast or $6 for the kids to eat too. They also buy the 4 poptarts for $2, the toaster strudel for $3, the frozen pizzas for $4, the pizza bites for $4, etc. And most of that stuff, by the pound is very expensive.
    Agreed.

    Even simply a $1.25 box of pasta, $2.50 can of tomato sauce and $1 can of chick peas can feed a family of 5.

    People are not smart. I only buy things that are on sale or normally cheap, I have lived easily off $20 a week for food. I would buy chicken legs if I would buy any meat because its usually $1 a pound and much better than breasts. People do not know how to cook or budget properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Here they moved away from it. Obviously not so much in the UK, or HFCS would be apart of the tax.

    The funny thing about artificial sweeteners are the studies that show that they slow down your metabolism when you consume them. So if you drink a can of pop at dinner, the 100 calories you saved from the pop is offset by the several hundred calories your body stored when it slowed your metabolism. I saw some studies suggest as much as 50% slower metabolic absorption.

    Though, out of all of those, Stevia isn't that bad. My roommate has diabetes, and it really is a great substitute, and it doesn't have a bitter aftertaste, and it's sweeter than sugar.

    And it has less than 1 on the glycemic index.

    EDIT: So, besides the pop no longer being diet, you're also drinking sweetened cancer.
    Are you saying the US has moved away from HFCS?

    I haven't ever tried Stevia and I don't plan to use it.

    I've worked with Trehalose that had similar properties of glucose but half the sweetness at a restaurant I worked at. But that was to make desserts less sweet and not for health benefits.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Agreed.

    Even simply a $1.25 box of pasta, $2.50 can of tomato sauce and $1 can of chick peas can feed a family of 5.

    People are not smart. I only buy things that are on sale or normally cheap, I have lived easily off $20 a week for food. I would buy chicken legs if I would buy any meat because its usually $1 a pound and much better than breasts. People do not know how to cook or budget properly.
    $20/week is still $1040/year. Here's the real boss savings plan:



    Though, tbh, my old Korean household ate Ramen regularly. They just used higher quality noodles (50 cents each). But you crack and egg in it, add some green onion, some vegetables, water chestnuts, tofu, etc.

    But on average, their meal probably cost $1, sometimes $2. Though, they also ate a lot of kimchi, which is expensive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Are you saying the US has moved away from HFCS?

    I haven't ever tried Stevia and I don't plan to use it.

    I've worked with Trehalose that had similar properties of glucose but half the sweetness at a restaurant I worked at. But that was to make desserts less sweet and not for health benefits.
    No, I'm saying due to stricter regulations in the UK, sugar is the most predominant sweetener in regular processed drinks. If HFCS was so prominent, it would be included in the language for taxing drinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.


    My internet brings all the nerds to the yard, And there like, Its better than yours, Damn right its better than yours, I can share with you, But I have to charge!
    La la-la la la, I know Rok wants it! La la-la la la, and it's on Wifi! Imagine if I bothered to tether it! La la-la la la, nah nah nah nah nah! La la-la la la!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Just saying, for the sake of anyone who was about to go die,

    You would absolutely NEED multivitamins with this, and probably a probiotic as well -- and even then, I can't promise it won't seriously mess up your insides
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Just saying, for the sake of anyone who was about to go die,

    You would absolutely NEED multivitamins with this, and probably a probiotic as well -- and even then, I can't promise it won't seriously mess up your insides
    Asian people do it on the regular.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.


    My internet brings all the nerds to the yard, And there like, Its better than yours, Damn right its better than yours, I can share with you, But I have to charge!
    La la-la la la, I know Rok wants it! La la-la la la, and it's on Wifi! Imagine if I bothered to tether it! La la-la la la, nah nah nah nah nah! La la-la la la!

  31. #31

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    Ramen is just rice noodles
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.


    My internet brings all the nerds to the yard, And there like, Its better than yours, Damn right its better than yours, I can share with you, But I have to charge!
    La la-la la la, I know Rok wants it! La la-la la la, and it's on Wifi! Imagine if I bothered to tether it! La la-la la la, nah nah nah nah nah! La la-la la la!

  32. #32
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    You don't eat just rice though -- or you also risk vitamin deficiencies. Ramen has literally 0% vitamins. I googled it to check!

    I'm not saying it's bad for calories. I'm just saying you need vitamins at some point or you run out of them and get malnutrition anyway.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Ramen is just rice noodles
    Not true at all.

    Noodles in ramen have wheat in them.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Just saying, for the sake of anyone who was about to go die,

    You would absolutely NEED multivitamins with this, and probably a probiotic as well -- and even then, I can't promise it won't seriously mess up your insides
    I would assume kimchi is a probiotic.

    Ramen is a good base to add more nutrition though. It bpils down to being educated enough to take care of yourself.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Extremely, IMO, if you actually mean the stuff you say in the sentences above. It's the same way with "extra" taxes for cigarettes and other unhealthy things that poor/uneducated people purchase in disproportionate amounts. You pretend to care about them by forcing them to spend more money on stuff that they like.

    The reality is that you don't actually care about the poor except when it's convenient for you. It's easy for you to be a social justice warrior via the keyboard, but when it comes to legislation and non-profit programs you could not possibly give a ****. At every other moment of the day (and there's not many, it seems) that your oversized *** isn't behind your keyboard therwise you think they should just be punished for being uneducated or addicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Extremely, IMO, if you actually mean the stuff you say in the sentences above. It's the same way with "extra" taxes for cigarettes and other unhealthy things that poor/uneducated people purchase in disproportionate amounts. You pretend to care about them by forcing them to spend more money on stuff that they like.

    The reality is that you don't actually care about the poor except when it's convenient for you. It's easy for you to be a social justice warrior via the keyboard, but when it comes to legislation and non-profit programs you could not possibly give a ****. At every other moment of the day (and there's not many, it seems) that your oversized *** isn't behind your keyboard therwise you think they should just be punished for being uneducated or addicted.
    Annnnd... here he is. The old Lurk. Back again. You know nothing about me, the way I vote or what I do. But leaving aside the ad-hominem aspects of your post, I take issue with the "stuff they like" aspect. "They", those "others" like it because they know it. They know it because their family knew it. That's just the way things are, and putting all the tax back into education and offset has to be part of the deal. Just another aspect that inequality in society brews. The taxes on cigarettes did disproportionately hit the poor and mentally ill. Hence here, at least, part of it was to go into increased social security for the lowest levels. Probably until we got a conservative government back.

    And you calling me a keyboard warrior makes me laugh. In some ways it's truer than you think. But if you want to be insulting poppet, don't put the "social justice" in there. I consider that a compliment, no matter how you mean it.


    PS. HFCS is just sugar. It might taste slightly sweeter, but you can just use less. The demonizing of something with a marginal difference to something else is just dumb. Not that we get much HFCS anyway, 'cos we have so much sugar cane.

    So much education these days comes from the teeve, or facebook. Both spouters of bad food adds and very little actual information (except my feeds, obviously, 'cos I'm speshul).
    Last edited by Rokchick; 03-09-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    When I was working 1 full time job and 2 part time jobs, all for amazingly crap wages, and also taking care of my baby boy during the days while my-now ex-wife worked days, we flocked to fast food joints just because it was something we could afford and it was fast. Just how it is.
    When it comes to store-bought food, just like hookers, nasty unhealthy is just cheaper. Package of hot dogs compared to good sausage, 80% lean hamburger compared to a NY Strip steak. It's just how it is.
    80% lean hamburger really isn't terrible...I guess it depends on whether or not you drain/pat out the grease after cooking.

    But simply saying "it is what it is" and leaving it at that isn't helpful IMO. That's a stance that just allows bad stuff to continue happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Not just price, no. But price is more of a factor that you suggest. A diet containing fresh fruits snd vegetables, healthier choices (milk or juice rather than soda, for example) is more expensive. Not by much, if you can shop wisely, but even a small increase can be beyond some poor people.
    Which is exactly why there are programs out there like WIC and SNAP which you can use only to buy such things. Especially milk, bread, fruit etc. I absolutely loathe canned stuff in general but canned vegetables are better than no vegetables and are generally extremely cheap. As for buying fresh - if you want variety yes. If you can stand a little boredom, bananas are .38/lb here (and this is the frozen north) and a huge bag of spinach is 2 something.

    I agree with you about the buying in bulk thing though which is why budgeting classes are so important. If you budget right you will save money by buying in bulk. I'm not poor by most standards but anything and everything I can buy on sale in gigantic quantities and freeze, I do. It saves at least a hundred bucks a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Annnnd... here he is. The old Lurk. Back again.
    I never changed, so I'm not sure what you're trying to do here besides be snotty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    You know nothing about me, the way I vote or what I do.
    Not in real life. But the way you portray yourself on these boards gives plenty of space for commentary, and it sure doesn't require a whole lot of effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I take issue with the "stuff they like" aspect. "They", those "others" like it because they know it. They know it because their family knew it. That's just the way things are
    I was in a hurry. Change it to "stuff they buy in disproportionate quantities" then and stop being a tone troll.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    and putting all the tax back into education and offset has to be part of the deal. Just another aspect that inequality in society brews. The taxes on cigarettes did disproportionately hit the poor and mentally ill.
    So in order to stop inequality and the income gap we need to create MORE inequality and MORE taxes that deliberately keep the poor on the bottom end of the wage scale.

    Makes perfect sense - but only with RokLogik.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    And you calling me a keyboard warrior makes me laugh. In some ways it's truer than you think. But if you want to be insulting poppet, don't put the "social justice" in there. I consider that a compliment, no matter how you mean it.
    In many ways I'm extremely pro-social-justice, so that aspect of it isn't supposed to be an insult. But with the word "keyboard" in front of it I consider it the highest possible insult since it makes you the worst sort of pretender and hypocrite. You care only when it's convenient and easy for you. You care about the poor only because in your little world it's an excuse to parrot your ideology when the reality is that if you truly bought into your ideology you would be arguing for the exact opposite of the **** you do. It's disgusting and is a demonstration of the notion that you deserve most of the insults you've earned here.
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    So in order to stop inequality and the income gap we need to create MORE inequality and MORE taxes that deliberately keep the poor on the bottom end of the wage scale

    In many ways I'm extremely pro-social-justice, so that aspect of it isn't supposed to be an insult. But with the word "keyboard" in front of it I consider it the highest possible insult since it makes you the worst sort of pretender and hypocrite. You care only when it's convenient and easy for you. You care about the poor only because in your little world it's an excuse to parrot your ideology when the reality is that if you truly bought into your ideology you would be arguing for the exact opposite of the **** you do. It's disgusting and is a demonstration of the notion that you deserve most of the insults you've earned here.
    So you just ignore my comments on offset? K

    Again, you know nothing about me, except that I don't support right wing policies, am a feminist, and can push buttons. But tell me, what would I be arguing for if I really cared? Tell me, please do. Since you seem to think you are the font of all wisdom.

    Sitting there typing about keyboard warriors as an insult is actually pretty funny ya know.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Which is exactly why there are programs out there like WIC and SNAP which you can use only to buy such things. Especially milk, bread, fruit etc. I absolutely loathe canned stuff in general but canned vegetables are better than no vegetables and are generally extremely cheap. As for buying fresh - if you want variety yes. If you can stand a little boredom, bananas are .38/lb here (and this is the frozen north) and a huge bag of spinach is 2 something.

    I agree with you about the buying in bulk thing though which is why budgeting classes are so important. If you budget right you will save money by buying in bulk. I'm not poor by most standards but anything and everything I can buy on sale in gigantic quantities and freeze, I do. It saves at least a hundred bucks a month.
    Seriously, there are some people who cannot afford to make the trade-offs necessary to do bulk buying or buying stuff on sale. If your budget for essentials has no wiggle room, and i have known some people, myself included during a few periods of unemployment when I was young, who were educated, understood budgets, but simoly did not havr a few extra dollar for those serendipitous purchases.

    Also, other things do come into play - transportation, scheduling, child care, exhaustion after working multiple jobs. Have you read Barbara Erenreich's book on being one of the working poor, Nickled and Dimed? It's rather enlightening.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    In many ways I'm extremely pro-social-justice, so that aspect of it isn't supposed to be an insult. But with the word "keyboard" in front of it I consider it the highest possible insult since it makes you the worst sort of pretender and hypocrite. You care only when it's convenient and easy for you. You care about the poor only because in your little world it's an excuse to parrot your ideology when the reality is that if you truly bought into your ideology you would be arguing for the exact opposite of the **** you do. It's disgusting and is a demonstration of the notion that you deserve most of the insults you've earned here.
    You know, I'm rather offended by the 'keyboard warrior' label.

    I am unable to walk, and restricted to bed as a result of other health issues. The keyboard is all I have. So I write letters and sign legitimate petitions and use internet resources to educate myself and signal boost certain things and do what I can to support the causes I believe in. I used to be able to do more, but I'm supporting myself and my partner, who is my 24/7 caregiver, on a modest disability insurance benefit, so i can't donate much any more. I can't volunteer, i can't march or demonstrate. I am a keyboard warrior. And I believe it's better than doing nothing at sll.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    Artificial sweeteners are the worst. I actively avoid them. Diet sodas are the worst lie. I prefer drinking water in general, rarely do I ever have a soda.
    In general the "facts" about the dangers of artificial sweeteners have a truth truth level usually associated with anti-vaxxers.

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  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    Durn Skippy. I have a can of pure cane sugar Pepsi almost every day and it is utter bliss. The corn syrup Pepsi tastes nasty.

    Exactly. Taxes alone won't do it. NY State put an insane tax on tobacco, but then added programs and multi-media ads to help with quitting. It has worked some.

    When I was working 1 full time job and 2 part time jobs, all for amazingly crap wages, and also taking care of my baby boy during the days while my-now ex-wife worked days, we flocked to fast food joints just because it was something we could afford and it was fast. Just how it is.
    When it comes to store-bought food, just like hookers, nasty unhealthy is just cheaper. Package of hot dogs compared to good sausage, 80% lean hamburger compared to a NY Strip steak. It's just how it is.
    "When it comes to store-bought food, just like hookers, nasty unhealthy is just cheaper."

    Dan lol, would rep +

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