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Thread: Cofc and hunter

  1. #1
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Default Cofc and hunter

    Please find a subject you 2 can disagree on and concentrate on each other. Maybe then the level of discussion can get above kindergarten in the other threads. Or I can see more than half the posts.
    Sorry hunter, you are not quite the same level of idiocy, but sometimes I think beating my head on the table would be more productive.

    PS. Yes I know I have historically played idiot ping pong with cofc which just encourages him, but I must have had a bigger dose of amusement to dispense then.

    PPS. Cofc dear, your trolling used to be funnier, or wittier. Lift your game sunshine. It's not even clear trolling now. In the terms of Donnie SAD.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Please find a subject you 2 can disagree on and concentrate on each other.
    you are clearly either blind or have a very short memory! and why you want us to concentrate on each other when you are concentrating on each one of us for some reason!


    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Sorry hunter, you are not quite the same level of idiocy, but sometimes I think beating my head on the table would be more productive.
    Only an idiot who lost all means of persuasion/lobbying would call other idiots/names and/or start to attack them.
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    first five would receive 50 extra coins don't miss the chance...

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    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    you are clearly either blind or have a very short memory! and why you want us to concentrate on each other when you are concentrating on each one of us for some reason!

    Only an idiot who lost all means of persuasion/lobbying would call other idiots/names and/or start to attack them.
    You are mistaken. I'm not calling either of you an idiot. I'm just saying the level of discourse is idiotic. And it is. It could be for various reasons. Trolling, language difficulties, intransigence, or whatever. You could both be intelligent creatures in real life.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    hunter has been on my ignore list since forever. It's been a historically demonstrated fact on these boards that if no-one responds to him he goes away eventually. He really does.

    However that makes no difference with cofc. I don't have him on ignore because it's hilarious to me that he can get you guys to post massive textwalls in response to one-liners. All he has to do is make a post - pretty much any post - and he gets more bites than he can handle, no matter how childish or devoid of citations he gets. It's actually kind of incredible.
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

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    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    I have cofc on ignore for exactly the reason Lurk does not . Save me the temptation of pointing out wrongness on the internet. I tried talking to him once a long time ago, haven't tried since. It really is pretty amazing that he can still get people to answer him though.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    I have cofc on ignore for exactly the reason Lurk does not . Save me the temptation of pointing out wrongness on the internet. I tried talking to him once a long time ago, haven't tried since. It really is pretty amazing that he can still get people to answer him though.
    I really should stop giving people on my ignore list the courtesy of an occasional check to see if they still belong there. It never ends well.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    I have Hunter on my ignore list.

    I only put people on my ignore list who refuse to explain themselves.

    I should probably add Cofc to that..... but I have to correct him or I appear to resemble him....
    Something about how I am

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    Consul Dan Chak's Avatar
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    I'm trying to keep my ignore list low. There aren't that many people around here as it is, so I don't want to go past 3. At the moment that sweaty, obnoxious bag is filled. I actually had to unblock someone to do this (hi Rok!). If I get to the point where I need to go past that number, I think I'll probably just stop coming around. I have enough pain and argumentative jackanapes in my life as it is.
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    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

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    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Rok's posts really haven't been that terrible ever since she gave up trying to push the "51% of the population are repressed minorities" thing and stuck to chowing on cofc's bait like Charlie Sheen goes through blow.
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

    [7:32 AM] Jason (Al Bundy raidslave): Who the **** loses an arti to 18 phalanx
    [7:32 AM] Old Timer US1: The same faction that loses one to 66 legos

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    "You must spread more........."
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    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Rok's posts really haven't been that terrible ever since she gave up trying to push the "51% of the population are repressed minorities" thing and stuck to chowing on cofc's bait like Charlie Sheen goes through blow.
    You mean ever since the troll baiters gave up on baiting on a subject they know nothing about?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    You mean ever since the troll baiters gave up on baiting on a subject they know nothing about?
    I'd love to have a real conversation with you one of these days. No name calling (mostly from me.....) and only the facts. I think it'd be a pleasure to chat in regards to defending some of the Liberal ideas Vs. Conservative ideas you've presented. Not being rude or anything, I'm trying to be genuine here

    -Edit-
    Like a genuine debate about Islam using only their high ranking leaders preachings and the text of the Qur'an. I'd love to have it if we could be appropriate and civil
    Something about how I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I'd love to have a real conversation with you one of these days. No name calling (mostly from me.....) and only the facts. I think it'd be a pleasure to chat in regards to defending some of the Liberal ideas Vs. Conservative ideas you've presented. Not being rude or anything, I'm trying to be genuine here

    -Edit-
    Like a genuine debate about Islam using only their high ranking leaders preachings and the text of the Qur'an. I'd love to have it if we could be appropriate and civil
    I know this was not aimed at me, but I'd like to point out that this is, as set up, a meaningless proposition. High ranking leaders of which sects? Islam is not a bloc of people all of whom think and believe the same things, any more than Christianity is. The interpretations of the Qur'an vary, the emphasis on different aspects of the faith vary, the degree of interaction with the concepts of the modern world vary - just as they do among Christian sects. You're not going to find a lot of agreement between the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda and a meeting of New England Quakers - yet both are Christian groups. If you doubt the existence of differences of opinion among Muslims, let me give you two examples that differ considerably from the preaching of fundamental Islamists.

    Here, for instance, is a speech by the Aga Khan, spiritual leader of the Ismaili sect, extolling among other things the virtues of education, cosmopolitanism and pluralism.

    A pluralist, cosmopolitan society is a society which not only accepts difference, but actively seeks to understand it and to learn from it. In this perspective, diversity is not a burden to be endured, but an opportunity to be welcomed.

    A cosmopolitan society regards the distinctive threads of our particular identities as elements that bring beauty to the larger social fabric. A cosmopolitan ethic accepts our ultimate moral responsibility to the whole of humanity, rather than absolutizing a presumably exceptional part.

    Perhaps it is a natural condition of an insecure human race to seek security in a sense of superiority. But in a world where cultures increasingly interpenetrate one another, a more confident and a more generous outlook is needed.

    What this means, perhaps above all else, is a readiness to participate in a true dialogue with diversity, not only in our personal relationships, but in institutional and international relationships also. But that takes work, and it takes patience. Above all, it implies a readiness to listen.

    http://wcfia.harvard.edu/jodidi/2015...cript-aga-khan
    Or this declaration of principles from the Canadian Council of Imams?

    1. We believe in the oneness of Allah (God) and in the oneness of humanity and that all the Messengers of God, including the final Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), have taught human beings how to come closer to God and closer to one another. Islam is a religion of nature and humanity, one that teaches that a person cannot be a good Muslim until he/she becomes a good human being. All human beings are equal, and all of them are the children of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them). The best Muslim is the one who is good to his/her family and neighbors and one who avoids harming others with his/her hand or tongue.

    2. We believe in peaceful coexistence, dialogue, bridge building, and cooperation among all faiths and people for the common good of humanity. Islam does not permit the killing of innocent people, regardless of their creed, ethnicity, race, or nationality. The sanctity of human life overrides the sanctity of religious laws. Islamic rulings do not – and should not – contradict natural laws. Islam is a religion that promotes peace, justice, equality, dignity, and freedom for all human beings.

    3. We believe in the preservation of all the necessities of life. Islam upholds the sanctity of religion, life, intellect, family/society, and property.

    4. We believe that the well-being of our fellow citizens is the well-being of Muslims, and that the well-being of Muslims is the well-being of our fellow citizens. Being law-abiding people is part of the Islamic practice, and following the pristine teachings of Islam leads to good citizenship.

    5. We believe in gender equity and each man and each woman’s divine right to education, social contribution, work, and treatment with respect and dignity. Men and women complement each other, and healthy relationships between them are essential to a healthy society.

    6. We believe that it is the right of every individual adult person to determine for themselves their conduct towards and within their society (for example, in matters of dress or good manners), and their personal conduct in matters of faith and belief as well, as long as their conduct does not threaten the common good. Likewise, we believe that every society must be allowed to express and celebrate humanity’s profound cultural diversity, as long as the expression of that diversity does not include the compulsion of any individual to violate their own human rights, or their personal values, or their human nature, or otherwise threaten the common good of all people.

    7. We believe and strongly encourage Muslims to seriously engage in civic life and contribute to their communities and society as much as they can.


    http://www.canadiancouncilofimams.co...s-declaration/
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    I won't refute your claim... Maybe I misspoke.. I meant those whom follow the Qur'an and the teachings of Muhammed. I meant specifically those leaders.

    I know this is conjecture and my opinion but when we talk about Catholicism we are talking about the Roman Catholic church. The Pope. The whole nine yards. I don't take offshoots of religions seriously.. (Maybe that makes me ignorant.... I would accept the label being that I don't take people who manipulate a religious text to suit their wants and needs seriously. The book says what it does and thats that.)

    If you don't follow the exact text of the Qur'an and live your life in the way Muhammed did then you'd be practicing wrong as stated by the Qur'an. This get muddied because the catholic have that whole out of whatever you hold true on earth is true in heaven so they can literally change whatever they feel to suit them. This conversation isn't about Catholicism though, it's about devout followers of the Qur'an and Muhammed. Would it be okay to say thats the exact topic and I'd wish to talk about only that?

    Maybe we just go ahead and say lets only talk about the Qur'an. That'd be the logical step and then we move forward to individuals and leaders. Then sects?
    Last edited by RycorAbsinthe; 03-07-2017 at 08:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I won't refute your claim... Maybe I misspoke.. I meant those whom follow the Qur'an and the teachings of Muhammed. I meant specifically those leaders.

    I know this is conjecture and my opinion but when we talk about Catholicism we are talking about the Roman Catholic church. The Pope. The whole nine yards. I don't take offshoots of religions seriously.. (Maybe that makes me ignorant.... I would accept the label being that I don't take people who manipulate a religious text to suit their wants and needs seriously. The book says what it does and thats that.)

    If you don't follow the exact text of the Qur'an and live your life in the way Muhammed did then you'd be practicing wrong as stated by the Qur'an. This get muddied because the catholic have that whole out of whatever you hold true on earth is true in heaven so they can literally change whatever they feel to suit them. This conversation isn't about Catholicism though, it's about devout followers of the Qur'an and Muhammed. Would it be okay to say thats the exact topic and I'd wish to talk about only that?
    F
    Maybe we just go ahead and say lets only talk about the Qur'an. That'd be the logical step and then we move forward to individuals and leaders. Then sects?

    So adherents of all Protestant faiths, those being offshoots of Catholicism, would not be eligible to be considered in a discussion about what Christians believe? I think many people would disagree.

    If you are going to say only strict fundamentalist Muslims represent Islam, then you must also say only strict fundamentalist Christians represent Christianity.

    If you only talk about the Qur'an in its original form, without the commentary and interpretation of the ages and of many different Muslim teachers, then you can only talk about the Bible, without commentary and interpretation.

    You're setting up false categories.

    Religion changes. Very few Christians now agree you should execute witches and heretics, or buy slaves as long as they aren't from your tribe - but that's what the Bible says. If you say that only those who follow a religious text without any interpretation are devout followers of that religion, you are in for a great deal of disagreement, I fear.
    Last edited by Meherrin; 03-07-2017 at 08:58 PM.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I'd love to have a real conversation with you one of these days. No name calling (mostly from me.....) and only the facts. I think it'd be a pleasure to chat in regards to defending some of the Liberal ideas Vs. Conservative ideas you've presented. Not being rude or anything, I'm trying to be genuine here

    -Edit-
    Like a genuine debate about Islam using only their high ranking leaders preachings and the text of the Qur'an. I'd love to have it if we could be appropriate and civil
    Do a Q&A with Hunter.

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    TL;DR

    ^^^ Totally Kidding, just didn't want to quote all of it.

    I'd say I agree with that. I hate Catholicism and all it's offshoots. I think all religion is poison. Some more than other because of modernization of the faith but we are leaving that out of the discussion. I'd blanket statement all religion as evil.... I'd also say that everyone who follows any faith regardless of interpretation through westernization of the value system or not is still wrong... I'd say they'd in fact be practicing their faith wrong.... You either adhere 100% to the text or you are a heathen... Thats my standpoint... I'm a realist and a crass one at that.

    Also, I specifically wanted to talk about Islam and the Qur'an....
    Last edited by RycorAbsinthe; 03-08-2017 at 02:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    ^^^ Totally Kidding, just didn't want to quote all of it.

    I'd say I agree with that. I hate Catholicism and all it's offshoots. I think all religion is poison. Some more than other because of modernization of the faith but we are leaving that out of the discussion. I'd blanket statement all religion as evil.... I'd also say that everyone who follows any faith regardless of interpretation through westernization of the value system or not is still wrong... I'd say they'd in fact be practicing their faith wrong.... You either adhere 100% to the text or you are a heathen... Thats my standpoint... I'm a realist and a crass one at that.

    Also, I specifically wanted to talk about Islam and the Qur'an....
    The problem s that it's actually a minority of adherents of any of the major religions who follow their text literally without any i interpretation or modernisation.

    So you could discuss the Qur'an as a text, but you would not be discussing Islam, only a minority of fundamentalist Islamists.

    And doing so in a context where most people reading and participating in the discussion are most familiar with the briader interpretations of Christianity makes for false comparisons.

    If you were to discuss both the Qur'an and the Bible as literal texts, so that one could see how both reflect the mores of other times and cultures, and the pronouncements of fundamentalist leaders who advocate literal interpretation of the Qur'an on the one hand, and the Bible on the other, I'd have no objection.

    Just don't set a narrow interpretation of Islam up against an undefined Christianity (or Judaism) which people will interpret according to their own experiences - which will be predominantly modernist to at least some degree, because fundamentalist Christians and Jews are the minority.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    I try to leave my Jewish heritage out of it for fear of the ban hammer from some sensitive nationalities.

    I'd love to debate the text of Catholicism if it wouldn't be the worst conversation ever..... We all know the texts of all faiths are god awful (pun intended). I just know that the catholic leaders across the world disavow most of their text. Most Jews do the same... In fact it's part of the faith to rip the text apart intellectually and to question. However the lack of education in most of the parts of the world and the history that goes with the Islamic faith is pretty clear..... As an American I had to teach myself these realities because we are so tolerant we omit facts and truth just to be PC.....

    I'd compare them all at face value and I treat them how I do for their text. Any adaptation would be blasphemy so......
    Something about how I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I try to leave my Jewish heritage out of it for fear of the ban hammer from some sensitive nationalities.

    I'd love to debate the text of Catholicism if it wouldn't be the worst conversation ever..... We all know the texts of all faiths are god awful (pun intended). I just know that the catholic leaders across the world disavow most of their text. Most Jews do the same... In fact it's part of the faith to rip the text apart intellectually and to question. However the lack of education in most of the parts of the world and the history that goes with the Islamic faith is pretty clear..... As an American I had to teach myself these realities because we are so tolerant we omit facts and truth just to be PC.....

    I'd compare them all at face value and I treat them how I do for their text. Any adaptation would be blasphemy so......
    Then you must also judge all Christians and Jews by the strict and literal wording of their texts. Which means that you must condemn them all for every bit of nastiness in the Torah and the Bible. Ignore any one who says "but the creation story is a fable, or an allegory, I accept evolution." Accuse any one who says "the texts that make women second class citizens and restrict them to the home are reflections of an earlier time and no longer should be used to dictate behavior" of being duplicitous about their faith. And so on. If there is violence in the Qur'an and you use that to condemn all Muslims, then you must also condemn all Christians and Jews on the basis of the violence in their basic texts.

    And if you do that, you will be maligning a great many people of faith from all three religions. I may not believe as any of them do, but I know that most of them are good people who only want to live in harmony with their neighbours.

    Oh, by the way, since you talk about history, you do know that at the height of the Islamic empires of the Middle East, Muslims granted Christians and Jews greater freedom and tolerance than Christians in Europe granted to either Jews or Muslims?

    And of course you know that in the early part of the 20th century, many Muslim nations were well on their way to developing modern nations with modern ideas about religion and society, until Europeans and Americans destabilised many of those regimes, put dictators in place, and left the people with only the support of their religious leaders to guide them?
    Last edited by Meherrin; 03-08-2017 at 03:51 AM.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Then you must also judge all Christians and Jews by the strict and literal wording of their texts. Which means that you must condemn them all for every bit of nastiness in the Torah and the Bible. Ignore any one who says "but the creation story is a fable, or an allegory, I accept evolution." Accuse any one who says "the texts that make women second class citizens and restrict them to the home are reflections of an earlier time and no longer should be used to dictate behavior" of being duplicitous about their faith. And so on. If there is violence in the Qur'an and you use that to condemn all Muslims, then you must also condemn all Christians and Jews on the basis of the violence in their basic texts.
    Yes. Every day. I try to deal in pure logic despite my fragrantly pungent opinions. Maybe being brought up Jewish made me that way.... We are raised to question everything all day long. I condemn my own for their violence and hatred. I'm Atheist religiously (now) but I don't deny my heritage and ancestry if that makes sense?


    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    If you do that, you will be maligning a great many people of faith from all three religions. I may not believe as any of them do, but I know that most of them are good people who only want to live in harmony with their neighbors.
    Oh goodness I believe that my neighbors are good people and I think on a basic level we all at our hearts believe in peace and harmony. We are only taught through misguided idealism to hate. Most of that is indoctrinated through religion. I think it's funny that we can all use reason and logic until it comes to who's thingy in the sky, or whatever you may believe, is the right one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Oh, by the way, since you talk about history, you do know that at the height of the Islamic empires of the Middle East, Muslims granted Christians and Jews greater freedom and tolerance than Christians in Europe granted to either Jews or Muslims?
    Yes. If we are speaking specifically the Islamic empires..... I merely reference the Qur'an for this....

    "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" [Quran 5:51]

    "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers" [Quran 2:191]

    They are to mistreat everyone other than their own.... And kill their own for disbelieving anything other than direct text.

    I view the history of Islamic culture as a very startling regression into 'darkness'. Historically speaking the multiple times there have been port fairing nation of Islam where they have merged with other cultures they have always regressed into violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    And of course you know that in the early part of the 20th century, many Muslim nations were well on their way to developing modern nations with modern ideas about religion and society, until Europeans and Americans destabilized many of those regimes, put dictators in place, and left the people with only the support of their religious leaders to guide them?
    Yes and No. I blame America. Lets just be real. We wanted the oil and poppy fields. Everyone knows that.......

    I however don't believe that we are responsible for their culture.

    We can't be blamed for how they treat themselves and their own homes. That is a problem entirely separate from the problems our westernized intervention has caused. Even my rabbits pick a corner..... They throw their feces in the streets. Theres a fine line between destitute third world violence and poverty Vs. the level of neglect for ones own home they show in the middle east. It's just such an unusual set of complicated problems that is an issue with the culture of those nations... I don't think that it has to do with Islam but I believe that it doesn't help at all.
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    Senator Meherrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Yes. If we are speaking specifically the Islamic empires..... I merely reference the Qur'an for this....

    "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" [Quran 5:51]

    "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers" [Quran 2:191]

    They are to mistreat everyone other than their own.... And kill their own for disbelieving anything other than direct text.
    “God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” [20:8]

    “But if the people turn away (then do not be sad because) We did not send you to be a guardian over them. It is for you only to deliver the mes*sage.” [42:43]

    “For you is your religion, and to me is my religion.” [109:6]

    As in other religious texts, the messages are contradictory. Those who study the Qur'an note that the suras advocating violence toward other faiths were delivered during historical periods when the new community of followers of Muhammed were at war with established communities of other faiths.

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I view the history of Islamic culture as a very startling regression into 'darkness'. Historically speaking the multiple times there have been port fairing nation of Islam where they have merged with other cultures they have always regressed into violence.
    The same can be said of Christians. Diversity brings stress to a monoculture.




    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    We can't be blamed for how they treat themselves and their own homes. That is a problem entirely separate from the problems our westernized intervention has caused. Even my rabbits pick a corner..... They throw their feces in the streets. Theres a fine line between destitute third world violence and poverty Vs. the level of neglect for ones own home they show in the middle east. It's just such an unusual set of complicated problems that is an issue with the culture of those nations... I don't think that it has to do with Islam but I believe that it doesn't help at all.
    Oh fir heavens' sake, have you no awareness of what life was like in places like Lebanon, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iran and so on, before violence torn their countries to shreds? Read some autobiographies of people who grew up during the years before the West and its puppets began destabilising their countries, destroying their infrastructures, outlawing their poets and thinkers.

    Or remember that there are places in Europe today where white European men still piss against the walls in alleyways.

    You have a very one-sided view of Islam, and that's sad, because all cultures have darkness and light, beauty and ugliness, and what is important is to help eachother to support the beauty and light, and end the darkness and ugliness. But if you refuse to accept that there is light and beauty in a culture and its people, then you are saying that they are beyond hope of advancement. And that is the saddest thing anyone can believe about their fellow human beings.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Consul Dan Chak's Avatar
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    Not trying to change the subject, but why can I not rep anyone in here? Did something change and everyone forgot to tell me?
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

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    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Oh fir heavens' sake, have you no awareness of what life was like in places like Lebanon, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iran and so on, before violence torn their countries to shreds? Read some autobiographies of people who grew up during the years before the West and its puppets began destabilising their countries, destroying their infrastructures, outlawing their poets and thinkers.

    Or remember that there are places in Europe today where white European men still piss against the walls in alleyways.

    You have a very one-sided view of Islam, and that's sad, because all cultures have darkness and light, beauty and ugliness, and what is important is to help eachother to support the beauty and light, and end the darkness and ugliness. But if you refuse to accept that there is light and beauty in a culture and its people, then you are saying that they are beyond hope of advancement. And that is the saddest thing anyone can believe about their fellow human beings.
    You have a very one-sided view of Islam, and that's sad, because all cultures have darkness and light, beauty and ugliness, and what is important is to help eachother to support the beauty and light, and end the darkness and ugliness. But if you refuse to accept that there is light and beauty in a culture and its people, then you are saying that they are beyond hope of advancement. And that is the saddest thing anyone can believe about their fellow human beings.
    And here I thought we were going to have a civilized conversation. Condescension means you lost the 'debate'

    I have a very in depth understanding of the history of those countries. Slaughtering Christians and Jews.... The Ottoman Empire... Their own cultural regression which took place long before we got involved in their politics. You are just assuming things to be slanderous.

    Also... I believe you are talking about sex offenders. Sex offenders pee in public.....
    Last edited by RycorAbsinthe; 03-08-2017 at 07:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    And here I thought we were going to have a civilized conversation. Condescension means you lost the 'debate'

    I have a very in depth understanding of the history of those countries. Slaughtering Christians and Jews.... The Ottoman Empire... Their own cultural regression which took place long before we got involved in their politics. You are just assuming things to be slanderous.

    Also... I believe you are talking about sex offenders. Sex offenders pee in public.....
    Actually, the way you defined the 'rules', it wasn't likely that we could have a productive debate, since you have insisted since the beginning on a straw horse. I gave it a shot, but you are arguing without any appreciation of the cultural diversity of the Muslim world, or any knowledge of the actual people you're talking about. Seriously, not condescension - do you know any Muslims?

    And as fir the pissing in public - not, it's not sex offenders. It's a thing that lots of men do in parts of Europe, though there are attempts to get them to stop.

    Despite its extraordinary charms, the City of Light can also feel like an anarchic, post-apocalyptic hellhole – people litter, spit and pee freely in the streets, as if the city were their personal lavatory, bin and ashtray combined.

    Ubiquitous dog poo only adds to the fun, while young women unlucky enough to be stuck trying to get home after hours will know that the loutish menace only intensifies with the incessant sexual harangues of the litterers and the foulers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ation-and-lit/
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    It's a thing that lots of men do in parts of Europe, though there are attempts to get them to stop.
    It's a thing that happens a lot outside hotels in Australia as well. And on the side of the road. Not by sex offenders (what a weird conjunction).

    Rycor, it was very clear that you don't really want a conversation, just a platform to show the "otherness" of islam. Well, pal, the "otherness" of your religion seems similar to me. The only jews I see are dressed in black with completely suppressed women and curly side beards. But should I assume they represent the entire religion? Of course not! That would be infantile. Even though they would be closer to your idea. I see muslim women doctors at my local surgery, cashiers at the supermarket and uni lecturers. I recognize them because they wear a scarf. Which really doesn't offend me at all.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    I won't refute your claim... Maybe I misspoke.. I meant those whom follow the Qur'an and the teachings of Muhammed. I meant specifically those leaders.
    Anybody claims following the real ideas of someone who is dead is a liar. the claim can only be following what s/he understood from those teachings, because that person is dead and cannot interact with those who claim that they are representing his/her ideas.



    P.S. For truthfully criticizing any ideology, someone has to have the full understanding of that ideology with all of its dimensions, historical, social, philosophical, economical... etc. we -me also-, here, fight the ideologies we don't like just because. for example we might say, someone is wrong because s/he says something without going beyond the reason why s/he says that something!
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    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    Not trying to change the subject, but why can I not rep anyone in here? Did something change and everyone forgot to tell me?
    That mod guy announced it was being abused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    Not trying to change the subject, but why can I not rep anyone in here? Did something change and everyone forgot to tell me?
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.p...44#post2799544

    @Discussion:

    Just saying, virtually everything Westerners have discovered in science and philosophy is inspired by Islamic thought or directly reliant upon it. Our political and social theories relied heavily on translations of Ibn Khaldun at one point when the North Africans had much more figured out than the Europeans. Maimonides and Thomas Aquinas rely heavily on Avicenna, and thus the foundation of Western legal thought relies upon Islamic thought. Physics and math are impossible without the conceptual scheme laid out by the Arabs - Algebra. Also, the dialogues of Plato as well as Aristotle himself would be lost if it weren't for their preservation in the Islamic world during the Middle Ages.

    And Islamic thought hasn't really died down since then either. I actually rank Sharia and its interpretations culture significantly more interesting than Christian theology and discussion, although slightly below its Jewish counterpart (Talmud). A big reason for this is bioethics; did you know that Sharia scholars tend to think that Sharia is strongly in favor of stem cell research? The arguments used there are quite sharp and hard to parallel in Christian thought.

    This is just one example -- obviously there are plenty of judgements in Sharia, just as in the Talmud, that I find deeply disquieting and sometimes even disturbing.

    TL;DR, it's a mistake to take "the things I notice about and think are important in someone else's religion" and obtain the belief that "this is a full description of that religion." The world is complex, and so are people. Sometimes we've used that complexity to focus on what divides us, and ignored parts that could serve as a bridge. We build walls, not bridges, forgetting that all three major religions see us as children of the same God, descended from the same flesh, and quite literally one, single human family.
    Last edited by The Burninator; 03-08-2017 at 12:09 PM.
    "The Universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice... It is the voice of our ancestors, speaking through us, and the voice of our inheritors, waiting to be born. It is the small, still voice that says: we are one. No matter the blood. No matter the skin. No matter the world. No matter the star. We are one. No matter the pain. No matter the darkness. No matter the loss. No matter the fear. We are one. Here, gathered together in common cause, we agree to recognise this singular truth and this singular rule: that we must be kind to one another. Because, each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the Universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light the way to a better future. We are one." ~G'kar

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    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Thanks Kurtz.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    did you know that Sharia scholars tend to think that Sharia is strongly in favor of stem cell research? The arguments used there are quite sharp and hard to parallel in Christian thought.
    Fun Fact #1: In sharia law -according to some scholars- you can change your sex in special cases.

    Fun Fact #2: In sharia law -according to many scholars- you have to follow the law of the country you live/visit.

    Fun fact #3: Sharia law changes according to era and location.
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