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Thread: Despite all our political beliefs... Do we all see this as wrong?

  1. #41
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    the rule of his state while he was a governor in it does not have problem with that.
    Translation please?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Translation please?
    source

    Quote Originally Posted by reuters
    Pence used private email while Indiana governor
    Indiana law does not prohibit public officials from using personal email accounts, the Star said.
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    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Translation please?
    I think the idea is "even though there's no evidence what Clinton did caused harm, what she did was illegal, so she should be punished. What Pence did caused harm, but it wasn't illegal, so he gets a pass."

    Ofc, that's a little weird as a view, and the assertion that what Clinton did was flatly illegal is a little questionable, if acceptable to me.

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    your people put those laws, not me
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  5. #45
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Legal, illegal.. hmmm what could the difference be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  6. #46
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Legal, illegal.. hmmm what could the difference be.
    Do you want people punished just for breaking the law or because the law exists for some reason, ie. to prevent harm? In other words, law can be misguided -- it can make a man doing no harm into a criminal by decree, and it can make a man doing great harm into an innocent by decree. The question is whether the decree of law makes sense in this case, Blaze. Does it make sense to be outraged at someone who apparently did no harm by breaking a law while pardoning another who apparently did harm but broke no law?

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    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Does it make sense to be outraged at someone who apparently did no harm by breaking a law while pardoning another who apparently did harm but broke no law?
    Breaking the law is far more dangerous than unintentional harming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Breaking the law is far more dangerous than unintentional harming.

    They took the same action, buddy. The difference is that in one place it's illegal and in the other it isn't. If they make pineapple pizza illegal in Iceland, eating a pineapple pizza there doesn't suddenly become more likely to harm someone than it was before it was illegal. The other difference is that there is proof positive that Pence's email was hacked, and no proof whatsoever that Hillary's was. Pence, who didn't break the law, actually caused harm by his action -- ie that confidential info was compromised. Hillary, whose similar action did violate the law, apparently didn't cause the same harm with that action.

  9. #49
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Do you want people punished just for breaking the law or because the law exists for some reason, ie. to prevent harm? In other words, law can be misguided -- it can make a man doing no harm into a criminal by decree, and it can make a man doing great harm into an innocent by decree. The question is whether the decree of law makes sense in this case, Blaze. Does it make sense to be outraged at someone who apparently did no harm by breaking a law while pardoning another who apparently did harm but broke no law?
    But people were harmed by the one doing something illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    They took the same action, buddy. The difference is that in one place it's illegal and in the other it isn't. If they make pineapple pizza illegal in Iceland, eating a pineapple pizza there doesn't suddenly become more likely to harm someone than it was before it was illegal. The other difference is that there is proof positive that Pence's email was hacked, and no proof whatsoever that Hillary's was. Pence, who didn't break the law, actually caused harm by his action -- ie that confidential info was compromised. Hillary, whose similar action did violate the law, apparently didn't cause the same harm with that action.
    So it is okay if I can break the law as long as I can, if nobody gets hurt.

    He did not break the law, but there was someone getting hurt, as progressives, you should ask to get a law to prevent such things from happening in the future. oh I forgot, conservatives need half baked dirt on them to get kicked out ASAP.


    the funny thing is american anti-trump media becoming a joke in Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharova joking on facebook
    "I entered the building of the Foreign Ministry and came across US Ambassador to Moscow John Tefft. You put yourself at risk communicating with Russian diplomats. What if CNN learns about it, - I wished good morning to the partner,"
    Last edited by н-υ-п-т-ε-я; 03-03-2017 at 04:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
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  11. #51
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    They took the same action
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    So how do we feel about the VP using a private email server
    He did not have a private email server though.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    He did not have a private email server though.....
    It was AOL account.


    Quote Originally Posted by BBC
    But the legislation is generally interpreted to mean that communications related to official government business must be retained for public records, according to the Indianapolis Star, which broke the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
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  13. #53
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    But people were harmed by the one doing something illegal.
    If there is evidence that Hillary Clinton having a private email server specifically caused harm -- not just evidence that she caused harm in general, since she obviously did -- then I have not seen it. Link?

    I was under the impression that there was no evidence that classified information was compromised as a result of her illegally having a private email server. If you have a specific piece of evidence that says otherwise, then spill, and you immediately win the argument.

    Or are you talking about Pence? Evidence says that confidential info WAS compromised as a result of his use of private email, which is not illegal. (Granted, Clinton's is a server and Pence's is just a private account, but I don't see how that distinction is relevant since we're all in agreement that one was illegal and the other wasn't.)

    As for Hunter's post, I don't feel the need to respond anymore since he didn't bother to actually face the question and instead pivoted to how laws are unfairly enforced. Obviously laws are unfairly enforced. But I fail to see how strict enforcement of every rule that applies to every act that doesn't harm another -- making literally millions of poor people into criminals for no apparent good reason -- is the solution to this. The obvious solution would be to write better laws, not to enforce BS laws.

  14. #54
    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    I think what the liberals want to hear is that we say we think it should be illegal... which it should....

    The point here is a states rights..... whether I agree or not is totally different. You are comparing a senator to Secretary of State affairs. States laws Vs. Federal laws.... Sometimes I just wonder if you guys know the difference.

    Hillary knew she was violating the law and continued to do so and in fact covered her tracks. Other dude did exactly what his state said he could....
    Something about how I am

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    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    States are just as required to be physically capable of complying with OPRA requests as the Feds and even in states where the governor is allowed to use private communications, its frowned upon (and for good reason). The distinction between "technically not illegal even though it's at the very least apparently against the spirit of OPRA, which the states are subject to" and "technically illegal" is thin indeed.

    Also, I am not a liberal, whether the l is uppercase or not.

    Also also, I have been respecting the difference between state classifications ("confidential") and federal ones ("classified"). As a state government employee, I know what the laws say and don't say, for my state in this case anyway, but more importantly, I know which laws are important for transparency and why and which laws are BS. It's my opinion that all government employees (all levels) should use only public accounts for their jobs to remain in compliance with the requirements of the Open Public Records Act and to guard against misuse of office (ie Bridgegate, which was partially covered up by the use of private communications). Thus as far as I am concerned, both Clinton and Pence did a baddie. What I want to see, personally, is people to clearly understand their own beliefs. Do you hate Hillary? If so, why? Is it really an email account? Does that really make her the devil? And if so, where does that leave Pence? I'd just like to see people form consistent belief sets. I would PREFER if those belief sets were the ones I think are correct, but I'd rather be faced by someone who was rationally disagreeing with me than doing so irrationally.

  16. #56
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Well I pretty much got the response I thought I would. For the record, I don't think it shows anything except stupidity really. AOL? Who knows what access they could be enticed to give whoever. Corporates are subject to their own drivers (shareholder returns usually). His meetings with Russia prior to the election are far more dangerous. I wish someone had a recording of them. But of course potential treason is a minor issue I guess.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Well I pretty much got the response I thought I would.
    That you made something up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Well I pretty much got the response I thought I would. For the record, I don't think it shows anything except stupidity really. AOL? Who knows what access they could be enticed to give whoever. Corporates are subject to their own drivers (shareholder returns usually). His meetings with Russia prior to the election are far more dangerous. I wish someone had a recording of them. But of course potential treason is a minor issue I guess.
    Dear god, they might bring up a questionable MySpace post next.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Dear god, they might bring up a questionable MySpace post next.
    Well, we are up to to 4 and counting. Do you think he himself didn't meet (which my post suggested), or didn't know about the others? Or both? I meant to put their meetings since it seems to be a campaign habit.

    So blaze in all seriousness, does it not worry you that the campaign team were meeting the russians? Who may have influenced the election? If there were recordings that had the trump campaign team knowing the russians were providing the hacking in order to get donnie elected, would that change your mind? How about if donnie himself knew (I doubt this tbh, he is too much blabber mouth security risk). In that case, what would the required response be?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    does it not worry you that the campaign team were meeting the russians?
    Only if you are worried that Obama administration met with the same guy 22 times.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    Only if you are worried that Obama administration met with the same guy 22 times.
    Even you are not that dumb, my dear. Official diplomacy is just that. Administrations have to meet with the russians. As they will now.

    A campaign team that gets their candidate elected (albeit against the majority vote) amidst real claims (from official sources) of enemy state interference, that is then shown to have had multiple meetings at high level with that enemy state during the campaign, is clearly something completely different.

    Although, if it turned out that Trumps emails were hacked by the russians, and a white-house official was suspected of being in cahoots, THAT would require a full investigation too. Not that it would have swayed the election. He pretty much said the worst things possible (far worse than the hillary emails), and people still voted for him.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    So blaze in all seriousness, does it not worry you that the campaign team were meeting the russians? Who may have influenced the election?
    Still no evidence. what happened to "you are innocent until proven guilty"?

    Capture9.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
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  23. #63
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Show me actual evidence proving your claim Rok. Why weren't you scrutinizing Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton meeting at an airport?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    (albeit against the majority vote)
    Hillary got way less than the majority, you silly woman.

  25. #65
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Lot of leaks lately, nothing strange about that either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Show me actual evidence proving your claim Rok. Why weren't you scrutinizing Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton meeting at an airport?
    It should have been (probably was, can't be bothered googling). All I'm saying is there must be an inquiry and you must find out. This is possible treason. It's a fairly serious accusation.
    Can't you answer my question? Don't you want to know? If it is just a beat-up it should be shown, and then he can get on with running the country. And pretending to be serious on occasion.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  27. #67
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    It's funny questionable activity should have serious inquiry now. How many countries was Hillary linked to? Can you answer my question? Can you provide facts to back the accusation you made?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    It's funny questionable activity should have serious inquiry now. How many countries was Hillary linked to? Can you answer my question? Can you provide facts to back the accusation you made?
    What accusation did I make? I said it should be investigated. And it really, really should. Hillary was constantly under investigation for years. It got a bit ho-hum, there were so damn many investigations. They weren't at a treason level though, this is. The intelligence agencies say it is very likely russia hacked the the emails, and probably with the intention of getting donnie into power. Don't you want to know if that's true? If it is don't you want to know if the campaign team knew that a enemy power was interfering in the election? You MUST want to know that!! This is not some stupid birther conspiracy, or even a manufactured outrage about something, it is your own intelligence agencies shining a light on potential treason.

    Of course I accept that its possible the intelligence community have it in for donnie after what he's said about them, but it is almost impossible to not leak these days, so if they made it up, we'd know by now.

    There seems to be a bigger chunk of hypocrisy at play here. Of course both sides play the outrage game with each other, but we had Bill Clinton under impeachment for a single lie. Yet donnie spews them out daily with no consequence. Why is that? We have a stupid email server issue with no known consequence which gets investigated for years, and yet a potential treason and it's "look the other way please".

    You must see this ridiculous situation that the rest of the world does.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  29. #69
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    It's funny questionable activity should have serious inquiry now. How many countries was Hillary linked to? Can you answer my question? Can you provide facts to back the accusation you made?
    She and the Co. played major role in creating ISIS/ISIL no doubt about it.

    Is there better treason than that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
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  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    What accusation did I make? I said it should be investigated.
    I am okay with Obama being investigated for setting up the meeting between Sessions and the Russian Ambassador.

    Edit:

    Obama also wiretapped his political opponents during the election, apparently.
    Last edited by cofc; 03-04-2017 at 12:59 PM.

  31. #71
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    The Obama administration also kept tabs on Trump during the election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    The Obama administration also kept tabs on Trump during the election.
    Why? We're there worries about what they were saying to an enemy state or something?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    The Obama administration also kept tabs on Trump during the election.
    He already get away with keeping tabs on most EU countries, without problems, and without EU complains, some leadership it was!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Why?
    Obama is a fascist?

  35. #75
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Apparently a judge has to see probable cause for a wiretap now. As pointed out to him by a former WH advisor "No President can order a wiretap. Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you."
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    As pointed out to him by a former Obama advisor (sic) "No President can order a wiretap."
    No president can "legally" wiretap a political opponent*

    Good to see Rhodes agreeing this is a crime. Investigation when?

  37. #77
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Why? We're there worries about what they were saying to an enemy state or something?
    It's were, and it's because they are crooked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    It's were, and it's because they are crooked.
    Auto-corrupt. And what if you're wrong? I'll wait for the reality to show up. But having potus say those things totally diminishes the position anyway. He's not just an idiot, he's a very dangerous idiot to your country. It's like he's never read or seen anything serious about politics at all. Maybe he really does get all his information from fox. God help you!!!
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  39. #79
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    What if you are wrong? During the election whenever anyone brought up HRC's illegal activity everyone said she did nothing, after the election everyone said two wrongs don't make a right and continue to make false accusations with no proof and demand impeachment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    And what if you're wrong?
    About Obama illegally wiretapping political opponents and the press?

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