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  1. #41
    Consul Kurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Hurting people in the name of the Qur'an is called being a good Muslim.
    Wrong. I have read the Qu'ran and it is much more peaceful than the bible.

  2. #42
    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    Wrong. I have read the Qu'ran and it is much more peaceful than the bible.
    Erik, you don't read. Don't lie to people to make an argument.

    Also... For devils advocacy... Christian leaders condemn the hate in the bible.

    Muslim leaders can't agree on who's the real leader and have been killing each other forever....

    We all can agree the Bible is terrible. So is the Torah in some parts. So why defend Islam when it's the same.

    -Edit- We should literally make this it's own thread so M.Hudson doesn't close this thread. We should be talking about munitions.
    Last edited by RycorAbsinthe; 02-17-2017 at 06:52 PM.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Muslim leaders can't agree on who's the real leader and have been killing each other forever....
    Wrong again. There is no pope per se, but there are definitely leaders. Besides, the pope is only the leader of one dominion of Christianity. To Protestants and Greek Orthodox, amongst others, he means nothing.

    And Christians have been killing each other forever too. In the west too. Ireland anyone? Not to mention Africa....

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    If you hurt anyone for any reason in the name of Christianity it is a sin.

    Hurting people in the name of the Qur'an is called being a good Muslim.

    BIGGGGG difference there. Extremist Christians would be clearly and openly interpreting their faith wrong as states by numerous popes numerous times.

    The whole of Islam does not condemn violence. They encourage it. To be a good Muslim is to live your life in the exact way the prophet Muhammad lived his life. That means betray the Jews under the guise of peace. That means treat women as second class citizens. That means to kill non-believers. Read the Qur'an. Just read it is all I'm asking. Those are direct paraphrased statements.

    Here they are below

    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran)

    “Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the Last Day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger even if they are of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29

    “They ask you about fighting during the sacred months. Tell them, fighting therein is a great sin but a greater sin is to prevent mankind from following the way of Allah, to disbelieve in him.” 2:217

    “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means. Therefore, righteous women are obedient and they guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to guard. And, as to those women from whom you fear disobedience, give them a warning, send them to separate beds, and beat them.” 4:34

    "Don’t take unbelievers as friends and allies, unless it is for “fear of them,” i.e. deceptively for protection of oneself or of Islam" 3:28

    “We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers.” 3:151

    “O Messenger, let them not grieve thee that vie with one another in unbelief, such men as say with their mouths “˜We believe” but their hearts believe not; and the Jews who listen to falsehood, listen to other folk, who have not come to thee, perverting words from their meanings, saying, “˜If you are given this, then take it; if you are not given it, beware!” Whomsoever Allah desires to try, thou canst not avail him anything with Allah. Those are they whose hearts Allah desired not to purify; for them is degradation in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.” 5:41

    "Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." 2:228

    Stop regurgitating other peoples opinions. Get your own. Read the book...
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  5. #45
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Erik, you don't read. Don't lie to people to make an argument.

    Also... For devils advocacy... Christian leaders condemn the hate in the bible.

    Muslim leaders can't agree on who's the real leader and have been killing each other forever....

    We all can agree the Bible is terrible. So is the Torah in some parts. So why defend Islam when it's the same.

    -Edit- We should literally make this it's own thread so M.Hudson doesn't close this thread. We should be talking about munitions.
    Don't make me agree with Kurtz.

    For common sense and accuracy, most muslim leaders condemn violence. Certainly in america or australia. SOME christian leaders are real happy with it. Even today. Ask some groups what they think should happen to homosexuals or women who want abortions, or ...... blacks or muslims. You might find that this all one big group of christianity you think exists is a big fat fantasy.

    The only reason people sound like they are defending islam is because you are so clearly attacking it from a very weak standpoint. It is just as stupid a religion as christianity or judaism in most ways (although in australia - and probably the US - it has less aggressive practices).

    I know several muslims. None of them want to get rid of anyone or change anyone's religion or think extremists of any brand represent anything. They don't go into the streets shouting about getting rid of anyone.

    If you want to use the quran as your source of information about islam, it is reasonable for others to use the bible as the source for christianity and the torah for judaism. As you clearly state all stupid old books are full of nastiness if you look for it.

    And since you weren't around at the time it was last discussed, yes, I've read most of them. Studied religion too. Was taught by an esteemed christian scholar for some of it.

    Step back and ***** whether it really is islam you mean, or it is some of the middle eastern cultural attitudes? Because they are not the same thing. Christianity does not require it's anointed scholars to be unwed. But the vatican/RC does. Is that christianity in action or is it a cultural issue? Can I blame all of christianity for that stupid practice? Or i's obvious consequences?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  6. #46
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    Wrong. I have read the Qu'ran and it is much more peaceful than the bible.
    I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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  7. #47
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Hurting people in the name of the Qur'an is called being a good Muslim.
    Evidence? never heard it before!

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    The whole of Islam does not condemn violence. They encourage it. To be a good Muslim is to live your life in the exact way the prophet Muhammad lived his life. That means betray the Jews under the guise of peace. That means treat women as second class citizens. That means to kill non-believers. Read the Qur'an. Just read it is all I'm asking. Those are direct paraphrased statements.
    No, in that era the jews started betraying.

    Before islam women were treated as a thing not a person, they didn't have the right to own, inherit, and some didn't even have the right to live, and islam brought it back

    Only fighting and killing non believers in case of war!

    oh, did you even read the quran more than me sir!, I read it in arabic, and I don't get the extremism, unless I have the same "twisted" mentality and "poor" intelligence as ISIS/ISIL I probably would


    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran)
    In case of war you fight, in case of peace then there is no fight!

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    “Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the Last Day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger even if they are of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29
    again fighting is in war, and there is many type of wars, military, economically, and politically. Also, jizya is a taxing system!

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    “They ask you about fighting during the sacred months. Tell them, fighting therein is a great sin but a greater sin is to prevent mankind from following the way of Allah, to disbelieve in him.” 2:217
    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means. Therefore, righteous women are obedient and they guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to guard. And, as to those women from whom you fear disobedience, give them a warning, send them to separate beds, and beat them.” 4:34
    1. again society worked that way in that era, men are the worker, women are in the house, however, women were let in the mosques from the time of the prophet, they had social activity, when they were prevented otherwise from even entering the temples by some other religions!
    2. the guarding means no cheating!
    3. the "beating" is hitting gently with a small stick!

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    "Don’t take unbelievers as friends and allies, unless it is for “fear of them,” i.e. deceptively for protection of oneself or of Islam" 3:28
    well played cutting the context here http://corpus.quran.com/translation....ter=3&verse=28

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    “We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers.” 3:151
    this is the doing of god, not the prophet or the people?

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    “O Messenger, let them not grieve thee that vie with one another in unbelief, such men as say with their mouths “˜We believe” but their hearts believe not; and the Jews who listen to falsehood, listen to other folk, who have not come to thee, perverting words from their meanings, saying, “˜If you are given this, then take it; if you are not given it, beware!” Whomsoever Allah desires to try, thou canst not avail him anything with Allah. Those are they whose hearts Allah desired not to purify; for them is degradation in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.” 5:41
    point?

    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    "Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." 2:228
    Divorce in islam has a period so that the husband and wife reconsider the divorce, and as the mother has a right to the kid the father also has!


    Quote Originally Posted by RycorAbsinthe View Post
    Stop regurgitating other peoples opinions. Get your own. Read the book...
    again I read it in the original language, couple times, and I don't read it as extremist and cherry pickers does.







    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a6863381.html
    Last edited by н-υ-п-т-ε-я; 02-18-2017 at 04:01 AM.
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  8. #48
    Artisan RycorAbsinthe's Avatar
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    Well it's clear that none of you have done the reading assignment due today so I'll be expecting you all to read chapters 1 though 5 for homework tonight and come back with a summarization not taken directly from the first three articles on google search. Spark notes will be considered cheating as well
    Last edited by RycorAbsinthe; 02-18-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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  9. #49
    Consul Kurtz's Avatar
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    It is clear that you are an islamaphobe.

  10. #50
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    Wrong again. There is no pope per se, but there are definitely leaders. Besides, the pope is only the leader of one dominion of Christianity. To Protestants and Greek Orthodox, amongst others, he means nothing.

    And Christians have been killing each other forever too. In the west too. Ireland anyone? Not to mention Africa....
    Muslims used to have a leader called a Caliph (which would be the equivalent of a pope). The first one was Abu Bakr the father of Muhammed's third wife. Shia consider the descendants of Fatimah (youngest daughter of Muhammed's first wife Khadija), mainly because his three sons died and she was the only daughter to have surviving male heirs which are known as Sayyid.

    But I get what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
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