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Thread: Substantive Discussions

  1. #1
    Tradesperson Pile of Pandas's Avatar
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    Default Substantive Discussions

    Let us put down our poo flingers and have some real game mechanic, strategic discussions.

    My thread, my rules

    No GONE, Luisss, BTDT bashing. Let's keep things civil and debate respectfully. Using game examples is fine, but I'd rather you use past server examples if possible.

    Some topics for consideration:

    1) The appeal of a natar win (or refutal)

    2) Does the use of spies reduce the magnitude of a server win, especially if the other side does not employ them?

    3) What do you think makes a strong leader? Which attribute is most important if you had to rank them? Take action personality, diplomatic/smooth talker, analytical, prowess, planner, ....anything else you can think of.

    4) Mace hammer vs axes

    5) Gauls as Hammers

    6) TTs vs Haeds in hammer
    Women are supposed to be very calm generally: but women feel just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts, as much as their brothers do; they suffer from too rigid a restraint, to absolute a stagnation, precisely as men would suffer; and it is narrow-minded in their more privileged fellow-creatures to say that they ought to confine themselves to making puddings and knitting stockings.

  2. #2

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    1) "If they keep score, I want to win."

    2) I believe so. I think anything dishonest reduces the legitimacy of a win.

    3) I would say team-building. You can be the best travian player in the history of the game, but if you can't get buy-in from your players and assign realistic goals and help them achieve it, then it's meaningless.

    4) Never been a teuton, so that's a better question for somebody else.

    5) Never been a gaul either.

    6) See #5

  3. #3
    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    I can already hear Bane saying,"Substantive Discussions? Over my dead body!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

  4. #4

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    1) I believe that I have won more servers than Lulu has played (example, not bashing! ) so you get bored and mix things up.

    2) It does not. Cheating does.

    3) Respect, temperament, strategic vision, execution and ethics.

    4) Mace gives you more offense faster. Axe are more efficient for upkeep. Can you feed a massive mace hammer? If not go with axe.

    5) Horrible idea. Lego are more efficient than Gaul.

    6) TTs ghost. HD Everything else.

    Gauls auto corrected to Fails. That's how I feel about them. Unless you're 100% anvil or an amazing ghost they are useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    I can already hear Bane saying,"Substantive Discussions? Over my dead body!"
    I've been steering this. We're almost there.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pile of Pandas View Post
    1) The appeal of a natar win (or refutal)
    2) Does the use of spies reduce the magnitude of a server win, especially if the other side does not employ them?
    3) What do you think makes a strong leader? Which attribute is most important if you had to rank them? Take action personality, diplomatic/smooth talker, analytical, prowess, planner, ....anything else you can think of.
    4) Mace hammer vs axes
    5) Gauls as Hammers
    6) TTs vs Haeds in hammer
    1.) Something different. Was just a "buck the system" type thing when we first did it. Our group back then, and I say it this way as I have no insight into the group attempting it now, had so much experience with Travian, both winning and losing, that we just wanted to go for a different goal.

    2.) Absolutely not, and I laugh, not in a disrespectful way as in laughing at these people, when people bring up this topic any more. Information is the most powerful weapon. I believe there was something, many rounds ago, where we had someone sitting a WW holding account of the opposing side, and they got on the account and sent all the defense back from the WW. I was not happy with that situation as that is going too far. Using spies and knowing troop counts and information is one thing but blatantly sabotaging them like that was uncalled for.

    3.) This one is hard to answer because you can say things like LB did, but I think a leader is only as good as those he surrounds himself with, be it like a council or whatever. But if we are narrowing it down to just Travian alliance leaders, I think one of the number one things is communication to the alliance as a whole.

    4.) I almost always play Tuetons with a few forays into Romans. Tuetons are for fightin' and maces are the fastest recovery time. When I first started playing Travian (S1R1) I made axes and hated to see a single one die. Next round I played all maces and loved splatting hammers because they were easier to recover and take less investment (Blacksmith upgrades and such).

    5.) I might take the easy way out on this and say I have never played a Gaul account past like 2 villages. I just feel if you want to build a hammer why not Tuetons or Roman? What do the Gauls offer other than a safer start to a round with trappers? I, personally, would rather have an EI ghost than a TT ghost.

    6.) Since I never did the math on Gaul troops and its been over 2 years since I played, I would say it all depends on the type of hammer. Ghost hammer is obviously TTs, but if you are building an EGH Haeds do more damage per wheat, yeah?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post

    5) Horrible idea. Lego are more efficient than Gaul.

    Gauls auto corrected to Fails. That's how I feel about them. Unless you're 100% anvil or an amazing ghost they are useless.
    I feel kinda insulted, considering that Greg put so much effort to getting rid of one of those "useless" gaul hammers.

    As far as my answers go:
    1) They set a different goal for themselves that is all. Good thing this actually apposes the standart goal of getting a regular ww to 100, so we can have some sort of conflict.

    2) I have always considered using spies unethical, and while I wouldn't discredit a win by a team employing them, I have more respect for teams that play legitimately. Predicting your opponents moves and pushing yourself into a mindset which allows you to think like them is very hard to pull of without insider info.

    3) Hard for me to tell. I have seen different kinds of leaders succeed, I don't think there is one and only formula for success.

    4) Mace builds faster in both numbers and attack power, so it's good for raiding but bad for crop consumption. Axes are better for attack/crop, but as already mentioned, given the same time frame they will produce a weaker army than a mace hammer. I would personally build mace as secondary and axe as wwk.

    5) Least amount of att/hour no matter if you go TT or HD, but I believe can still produce strong hammers. TT speed is nice for raiding early on.

    6) I prefer haeds, but TTs could work for a spawn hammer for artifacts perhaps.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsier View Post
    I think a leader is only as good as those he surrounds himself with,
    I agree with this. Build a good group with complimentary skills. Some people want to be the smartest person in the room. I want to he dumbest. I hope to recruit people who are better than me in every way.

    Quote Originally Posted by banzai130 View Post
    I feel kinda insulted, considering that Greg put so much effort to getting rid of one of those "useless" gaul hammers.
    If you had a Lego Hammer it might still be there. Lego EC provides more punch.

    Mace + TK = 3670 attack per hour for 23k res
    Axe + TK = 3491 attack per hour for 24.6k res
    Imp + EC = 3412 attack per hour for 28.9k res
    Imp + EI = 3194 attack per hour for 26.1k res
    Lego + EC = 3077 attack per hour for 27.2k res
    Sword + HD = 3039 attack per hour for 26.7k res
    Lego + EI = 2859 attack per hour for 24.4k res
    Praet + EC = 2822 attack per hour for 27.5k res
    Mace + Pally = 2790 attack per hour for 20.4k res
    Sword + TT = 2748 attack per hour for 21.6k res

    POP you could build a Praet hammer that had more punch than Sword TT.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    I agree with this. Build a good group with complimentary skills. Some people want to be the smartest person in the room. I want to he dumbest. I hope to recruit people who are better than me in every way.



    If you had a Lego Hammer it might still be there. Lego EC provides more punch.
    Mace + TK = 3670 attack per hour for 23k res
    Axe + TK = 3491 attack per hour for 24.6k res
    Imp + EC = 3412 attack per hour for 28.9k res
    Imp + EI = 3194 attack per hour for 26.1k res
    Lego + EC = 3077 attack per hour for 27.2k res
    Sword + HD = 3039 attack per hour for 26.7k res
    Lego + EI = 2859 attack per hour for 24.4k res
    Praet + EC = 2822 attack per hour for 27.5k res
    Mace + Pally = 2790 attack per hour for 20.4k res
    Sword + TT = 2748 attack per hour for 21.6k res

    POP you could build a Praet hammer that had more punch than Sword TT.
    Well idk how leggo hammer is less vulnerable to chiefing, so I'm not gonna argue about smth I know little about.

    Where did you pull those numbers from? I have doubts that they might not be very accurate.

  9. #9
    Tradesperson Pile of Pandas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post
    1) "If they keep score, I want to win."
    This is how I feel. If you're bored, why not play something else?

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilAnse View Post

    2) I believe so. I think anything dishonest reduces the legitimacy of a win.
    I agree too. I understand spies are part of the game, but I feel it's an unnecessary part of the game. If someone were to tell me where my opponent's next move in chess was going to be, the game would be a lot easier.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    1) I believe that I have won more servers than Lulu has played (example, not bashing! ) so you get bored and mix things up.
    *see my response to DA above. It's like playing pandemic, mysterium, or forbidden island and letting the game win. Feels pointless to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post
    2) It does not. Cheating does.
    We'll have to disagree here too. (except for the cheating part - that I agree, of course) I've never used bots or multi-account-ed or anything and I despise players that do. Just like with spies, it takes the challenge out of the game and then I have to wonder, why are you even playing? False greatness is not greatness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post

    3) Respect, temperament, strategic vision, execution and ethics.

    4) Mace gives you more offense faster. Axe are more efficient for upkeep. Can you feed a massive mace hammer? If not go with axe.
    We agree here. I see mace hammers as quick throw away hammers, built quickly, destroyed quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Bane View Post

    5) Horrible idea. Lego are more efficient than Gaul.

    6) TTs ghost. HD Everything else.

    Gauls auto corrected to Fails. That's how I feel about them. Unless you're 100% anvil or an amazing ghost they are useless.
    We agree about everything about gauls except their complete uselessness. TTs for raiding are the bomb. That said, every time I've played gaul, I've had a huge ghost hammer and then had everything else defense.... so I guess we don't completely disagree. A year ago, I would have argued haeds vs CEs, but now that I've played Roman a couple times, I think I'm forever sold. EIs aren't as fast as TTs, of course, but they hold their own. Now, If I could have TTs and then my roman hammer plus building bonus, that would be a dream.
    Last edited by Pile of Pandas; 02-04-2017 at 08:23 PM. Reason: formatting error
    Women are supposed to be very calm generally: but women feel just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts, as much as their brothers do; they suffer from too rigid a restraint, to absolute a stagnation, precisely as men would suffer; and it is narrow-minded in their more privileged fellow-creatures to say that they ought to confine themselves to making puddings and knitting stockings.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by banzai130 View Post
    Well idk how leggo hammer is less vulnerable to chiefing
    The hammer could have been used for defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by banzai130 View Post
    Where did you pull those numbers from? I have doubts that they might not be very accurate.
    Page three of the new Lego Guide discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pile of Pandas View Post
    I understand spies are part of the game, but I feel it's an unnecessary part of the game..
    You need them if for no other reason than counter espionage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pile of Pandas View Post
    Just like with spies, it takes the challenge out of the game and then I have to wonder, why are you even playing?
    It doesn't take the challenge out of the game. It is it's own challenge and an extension of the game. Much like the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pile of Pandas View Post
    We agree here. I see mace hammers as quick throw away hammers, built quickly, destroyed quickly.
    Or the greatest end game hammers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pile of Pandas View Post
    EIs aren't as fast as TTs, of course, but they hold their own.
    EIs are so much better though in my opinion. What were you forever sold on? Roman Calvary or Gaul?

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